View Poll Results: Which would you rather use cost efficient wise?
Lunar New Weapon 3 75.00%
Archdaeva Weapon 1 25.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:45 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
So many people don't understand this; I don't blame anyone for not understanding. Forgive the basic imagery.

Weapon +10
100-200 (20)
Acc Parry Macc Etc
+10 Attack
Condition
+10 Attack

There are at least 3 types of Attack.

ALL affect your auto attack swing damage.

1. Base Attack. Comes only on the weapon itself, weapon enchanting and armour enchanting.

If you have a skill that says +100% Attack it will give you 100% of your base attack in bonus attack.

2. Supplement Attack. Affects skill base damage. This on your character page is grouped with Bonus attack, but fundamentally works slightly differently

3. Bonus Attack. This is additive to your swing only.

By extension of this, accepting that Base>Supplement>Bonus in order of preference, weapons that DO NOT have aug/condition requirements to make their full stats are MORE efficient as a result of Supplement Attack "double dipping" in your skill damage swings in that it increases the skill base damage, as well as being additive to the final swing the same as bonus attack.

I've got a little section exploring this in my guide as well as pictures to explain where I got my numbers and logic from.
I kinda wish this was explained by NC themselves as well. Thanks for the info, I've played for quite a few years and this info was never really revealed which....is kinda sad.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2017, 11:21 AM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 470
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
So many people don't understand this; I don't blame anyone for not understanding. Forgive the basic imagery.

Weapon +10
100-200 (20)
Acc Parry Macc Etc
+10 Attack
Condition
+10 Attack

There are at least 3 types of Attack.

ALL affect your auto attack swing damage.

1. Base Attack. Comes only on the weapon itself, weapon enchanting and armour enchanting.

If you have a skill that says +100% Attack it will give you 100% of your base attack in bonus attack.

2. Supplement Attack. Affects skill base damage. This on your character page is grouped with Bonus attack, but fundamentally works slightly differently

3. Bonus Attack. This is additive to your swing only.

By extension of this, accepting that Base>Supplement>Bonus in order of preference, weapons that DO NOT have aug/condition requirements to make their full stats are MORE efficient as a result of Supplement Attack "double dipping" in your skill damage swings in that it increases the skill base damage, as well as being additive to the final swing the same as bonus attack.

I've got a little section exploring this in my guide as well as pictures to explain where I got my numbers and logic from.


I thought I explained this to you in the assassin forum.


ALL ATTACK EFFECTS SKILL DAMAGE TOO.


There is no special attack that just affects auto attacks.


THERE IS ATTACK THAT DOESNT SHOW UP ON SKILL TOOL TIP DAMAGE BUT WILL INCREASE YOUR ATTACK.


caps for emphasis.




@OP, you got 7b out of 3b or something and it's all a bit screwy but it's np.

essentially when you factor level differences and stats and compare to genuine end game stats, you should be capping these items at +10/15 and not going for +20, as well as realizing AC is just better than Lunar with that regard. It's less than half the price for similar stats that will hold you off until you get an actual end game weapon.



These weapons are to be treated similar to the original AC weapons back in 4.0 era. You dont want to dump a crap ton into them.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2017, 09:45 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

@LegendaryTzu
+++
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2017, 09:50 PM
Elyos
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  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendaryTzu - Siel View Post
you should be capping these items at +10/15 and not going for +20, as well as realizing AC is just better than Lunar with that regard.
What sucks is I'm probably going to just find a level 77 weapon and break it on +16 because I'm a complete moron.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2017, 09:59 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 837
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendaryTzu - Siel View Post
I thought I explained this to you in the assassin forum.


ALL ATTACK EFFECTS SKILL DAMAGE TOO.


There is no special attack that just affects auto attacks.


THERE IS ATTACK THAT DOESNT SHOW UP ON SKILL TOOL TIP DAMAGE BUT WILL INCREASE YOUR ATTACK.


caps for emphasis.
http://i.imgur.com/MBcpchT.jpg
Swap your weapons around. Take note of their stats and look at your skill tooltips. There is a lot more to it than you seem to think.

But no where do I say any attack stat doesn't affect your swing damage.
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Last edited by Mempo -; 01-03-2017 at 10:13 PM.
  #16  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:25 PM
Asmodians
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  • Posts: 470
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

I don't think you read my statement even with the caps for emphasis.


There is no such thing as only affecting auto attacks only, any and all attack will increase skill damage.

and yes, the skill tool tip damage, and the damage formula overall is a very complicated mess.

I'm assuming I'm misinterpreting your use of "swing damage."
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:26 PM
Asmodians
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  • Posts: 470
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Don't go for +77 weapons.


Find out what the best in slot weapon is and go for that. If you're going to invest so much, go for the best. The problem is, with tuning and level reductions and various other random modifiers and variables, they've made it very hard to ensure you get the best or near the best.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:31 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendaryTzu - Siel View Post
Don't go for +77 weapons.


Find out what the best in slot weapon is and go for that. If you're going to invest so much, go for the best. The problem is, with tuning and level reductions and various other random modifiers and variables, they've made it very hard to ensure you get the best or near the best.
don't worry, I'm joking lol
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:47 PM
Elyos
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Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

For detailed physical damage calculation, see http://forums.na.aiononline.com/na/s...d.php?t=151675
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Last edited by mooMOOMooMoomoo -; 01-27-2017 at 01:02 PM.
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