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  #1  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:21 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 10
Thumbs down Gunner is the most useless

I have become an army 4 gunner
I have a gladiator. Sorc assassin templar,
Since 5.0 the gunner is the most useless
Gladiator with duals got more dps
Obvious
ASSASIN ahahah has the best dps
Chanter obvious is suport
Sw is dps or support

Question
1 - serves the gunner in a group of pvp ??
2 - serves the gunner in a group of pve ??

For pvp instances, people do not look for a gunner
For pve instances, people do not look for a gunner


You say about your pj
I need you to compare your gunner to another class.

Suppose they have the same gear

The assassin has more dps, same sorcer
All classes have a shield with a duration of at least 1 min
The .sin, and ranger do not need it
Because in hide(skill) always give the first blow
The gunner does not have shields skills with more than 10 sg of duration
As an example a sorc sw sm glad temp

Now 5.5 has new inf. But
Question
Really sm needed another fear skill??

The gunner
Now heals 25% and hp increased 25%
Good, If it were tanke the gunner

To temp they gave new damage skill xdd

2 options
Increase pvp damage
Or
Increase the duration of shields and lowering the cooling

Note: the silence skills of gunner is useless against rangers

Last edited by 1s36E3CF -; 01-08-2017 at 04:44 PM.
  #2  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:33 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 504
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

I think gunner can do dps just fine if you using cannon ofc o_O
If u think gunner is bad try to look at AT (but after lv 74 AT is a monster)

Dunno about pvp I'll let other people comment about it.
  #3  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:47 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 10
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

Unfortunately
in iww,kamar, people ask for glads templar and ms, sure clerics, chanter or sw
What I see, is that the gunner, compared to others is not a factor for a good pvp group
  #4  
Old 01-03-2017, 08:40 AM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,367
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

I got 4-5 shot by a gunner yestarday in cannon. He did shock and awe and that whole stun he did 4 skills and i was dead.
__________________
{Songweaver - LittleSpoon} | Chanter - Imhottness | Gladiator - Stanza
Sorcerer - Itouchyou | SpiritMaster - Rejectedforlyfe | Gunslinger - WallaWalla
All 65 - Siel 4LYFE | DeMiGoDz Legion.
  #5  
Old 01-03-2017, 01:02 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 7
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

I have a reasonably well geared L74 glad (1300/1180 attack, 1500+ crit, 3700+ accuracy), and my gunner does a lot more dps in pve than my glad; it's not even a contest. True DPS, not ARM DPS.

In a 3 minute parse on the Iluma dummy, with gunner and no candy (only food and scrolls) and no DP or AOE attacks, I can do 1.4 to 1.5 mil damage (depending on godstone procs). On glad I'm lucky to get to 1.25-1.3 mil damage in a 3 minute parse.

-Mud
  #6  
Old 01-03-2017, 01:55 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: General
  • Posts: 231
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

*triggered*

the reason why you don't see people looking for gunners is because they need to be good at switching weapons with no downtime (impossible with high ping) and have a good cannon rotation (which most players don't even try to do).
basically most gunners are lagbads
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/4oo0hPe.jpg
Y u do this Sly!?

Last edited by NotMagikarp - Israphel; 01-03-2017 at 02:00 PM.
  #7  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:50 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 7
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azoturan - Siel View Post
You might want to consider your total damage during 5 min instead of 3 because of Berserking's CD. Plus I think your acc might be a bit too high, could stack that into attack since your target is a dummy anyways.

Not to poop your party but at equal gear, both with proper stats, glad in dual wield should outdps gunner nearly every time.
To be clear: (1) I have nothing in accuracy (no precision and no accuracy; not interested in buying +8 power/prec stones to end up at the same attack/crit as with att6/crit9); and (2) berserk is a 3m cooldown, so how would a 5m parse make sense? Glad should be berserking 30s out of every 3m, so a 5m parse would give glad a slight artificial boost to dps due to berserking 20% of the time instead of 16.7% like it should be.

Based on my back of the envelope calculation this morning, a glad with 1300/1180 attack would have a theoretical dps (including power shards and damage godstones) with berserk (but no DP) in a 3m parse of around 7.2k...which works out to 1.3 mil dmg. This is about the best result I get with my glad in actual testing. If you do better, well, there's a reason I switched back to gunner for my main in 5.0, and I guess that's just because I suck at glad.

-Mud
  #8  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:59 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 323
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

Gunner is actually very strong if done right. I've played it and loved it, but this kind of class is most useful for PvP, rather than PvE. At least that was my personal experience. It all comes down to switching the weapons fast and casting the skills before your target escapes.

Last edited by Kubei -; 01-04-2017 at 07:15 AM.
  #9  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:32 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 7
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

It's 2:25am as i write this so im tired but i have to get this off my chest, excuse the typos and stuff that doesnt make sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelewen - Siel View Post
I think gunner can do dps just fine if you using cannon ofc o_O
If u think gunner is bad try to look at AT (but after lv 74 AT is a monster)

Dunno about pvp I'll let other people comment about it.
After 74 at is a monster huh?
So basically at cap AT is a beast? Have fun reaching cap
How is he a beast at 75 compared to other 75 classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudHestia - Siel View Post
I have a reasonably well geared L74 glad (1300/1180 attack, 1500+ crit, 3700+ accuracy), and my gunner does a lot more dps in pve than my glad; it's not even a contest. True DPS, not ARM DPS.

In a 3 minute parse on the Iluma dummy, with gunner and no candy (only food and scrolls) and no DP or AOE attacks, I can do 1.4 to 1.5 mil damage (depending on godstone procs). On glad I'm lucky to get to 1.25-1.3 mil damage in a 3 minute parse.

-Mud
Whats the difference between "true dps" and arm dps?(assuming rain meter)



This is from personal expierence:

I made a gunner because they looked cool after playing an AT for awhile. I dumped every last bit of money i had(4-6b) got full ac armor, arena gun and regular BM cannon

I was still doing 1472 dps in IS compared to my AT that was around 3.5k same gear(ish). VERY annoyed that what people said was true that gunner is useless but i already wasted most of my money so i just went with it because if i didnt i would have quit.

I made some changes to my gear ( +7'd all of it, got an AC cannon and fused the BM with it, +10 the pistol and some other minor changes) asked around for gunner advice, met some very nice and smart people who gave me extremely helpful tips and rotations plus advice on pvp.

I now do 6.2k dps in IS and i'm not even close to geared. I out DPS everybody that i run with unless they're clearly superior in gear. Sins and mages come close i wont lie but i still pass them, i can manage to steal aggro from bosses, burst down mobs with a single pistol combo etc. I dont even have good accs just regular BM stuff.

I'm using IS as a base because thats what i had on my mind, not really scientific i know but it shows improvement.

First is run with eh gear and nyerkty rotations
Me: 506.321 (3%) gs: 12.768,Dps/peak: 1274(2.273)

Latest run with +7 ac gear +9 ac cannon +10 arena pistol, good manastones good rotations
Me: 2.213.198 (24%) gs: 9.450,Dps/peak: 5.741(6.786)

*edit* before anybody says anything about the GS, its a 20% 94 dmg. I've never really looked into getting a better one so thats what i roll with, not sure if cannon slow speed will justify a 2% 3868 stone.. I'm open to suggestions though**
Yes the class is nyerking hard to play, have to switch like crazy. Its not brain dead like SW where you drop one nyerking skill and bam you lost 30% of your health, but boy does it feel good when you put in hard work to a class everybody says sucks but then you show them up

I'm not even close to "geared" yet and im sure that i can be out dps no problem by other people who know what they're doing, but i normally go top 5 in stuff like EB top 3 in IS and depending on how geared my team is when i do adma its 1 or 5(like this one run where everybody was 72+ while i was 69)

For any gunner reading this, the class is nyerking hard but its worth it, if you cant deal with it and need a buff now then i suggest you play somethign ezy mode like sw or glad.

For pvp its another story, i still dont have my full +15 mythic bm set, missing chest then i have to +15 it all, but for the most part i do ok considering my gear, i can burst some classes down in a couple of hits if we're on the same gear level or they're a bit above me but for the super geared people i dont scratch them(No duh) for the most part i hope to improve skill wise pvp because i am still pretty new and have low pvp experience



I am secretly hoping we get a buff like SW

Last edited by ZeroSupport - Siel; 01-04-2017 at 10:36 PM.
  #10  
Old 01-05-2017, 12:14 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 7
Default Re: Gunner is the most useless

True DPS is total damage divided by total time. ARM works by reading the chat log. Because charge skills do not appear when you start charging (only when the skill goes off) ARM has no way of knowing that for the last 3 seconds of no attacks that you were charging. As a result, ARM doesn't not properly reflect DPS for charge skills as it omits the seconds you were charging from the denominator (treats that time as if you were not fighting).

This is true for any class (including sw and AT) that uses charge skills, but not classes that use cast skills (which have fixed base cast time) or instant skills (like glad or sin). True DPS and not ARM DPS is what matters. The only way to get it is in a controlled test where you restart ARM log and go for a fixed time before stopping and checking total damage vs. total time. Anything else is misleading for any class that uses charge skills.

To get elite gunner DPS you will need 5.0 gear and knowledge for the crit spell and Mb knowledge gives. For anything other than cradle you will want 800 crit spell and around 4.6k mb to be stat capped (tho jug cannon will help a lot too). For cradle the Mb target goes to 5180, which is awfully hard for a gunner to get.
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