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  #61  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:27 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,147
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Holy cow, are you all random employees of GameGuard all of a sudden? Nyerk off :P
Absolute NO to GameGuard! Nobody in here has provided an answer to how to provide such a service when the standard launcher still has issues for people (with cryptic error messages instead of some real answers).

We're getting the leftovers from NcKorea so if you want GG you better provide a substantial benefit/proof that it will stop current hacks and provide that proof to NcSoft. That said, it can and will be bypassed very easily because those making their tools will adapt and modify them (or just use existing tools from other regions and modify them).
  #62  
Old 02-06-2014, 08:01 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 527
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualboxmayweathe - Siel View Post
1.Rainmeter can be sandboxed and ran together with any hack, google around a bit but be careful which links you follow.. point is you can find guides for using Rainmeter with any hack you want.
ARM won't work sandboxed, I have specific checks for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualboxmayweathe - Siel View Post
As a cheat detection tool, it is USELESS, the basic principles behind such a system are flawed and will cause a lot of false positives, and would be based on untrusted information once again. For an implementation such as that to work, the game client would have to do synchronous writing (rather than asynchronous writing using a queue, which it does), you would need zero latency and the other players would have zero latency. Packet bursts are pretty common and occur all the time all while using the internet, causing displayed information to be mangled with different arrival times. To top that of, the scanner would have a need for absolutely no delay with reading, but even with the best implementation (acting upon kernel events telling you the file has changed) you will still have discrepancies between actual times and the delayed read times (thread switching, processing times, cpu cyles and such).
Did you read and copy/paste that from the AionScript forums? from the guy who's trying to defend his tool against hack detection apps? (hint hint, guy makes money from selling it, needs to convince users they are safe).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualboxmayweathe - Siel View Post
2. Gameguard sucks, but it works... hack developers LAUGH that ncsoft isnt using gameguard anymore, 100% of aion hacks currently being used are all detectable.
GG never worked, all it does is cripple legit users computers.
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  #63  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:19 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 2,326
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxion - Tiamat View Post
Holy cow, are you all random employees of GameGuard all of a sudden? Nyerk off :P
Absolute NO to GameGuard! Nobody in here has provided an answer to how to provide such a service when the standard launcher still has issues for people (with cryptic error messages instead of some real answers).

We're getting the leftovers from NcKorea so if you want GG you better provide a substantial benefit/proof that it will stop current hacks and provide that proof to NcSoft. That said, it can and will be bypassed very easily because those making their tools will adapt and modify them (or just use existing tools from other regions and modify them).
Hence my point about 'for the sake of a few people with errors... everyone else has to bear the burden of having cheaters everywhere' (for example if there are 1000 people playing and there are 50 or so error individual complaints then there are probably ~800+ people who are still playing without issue, those 50 should not be jeopardizing cheat protection for the other 800+ players).

No we have the same client, NA Aion simply removed GG at launch since it was P2P and people who could not connect = less money for them. Also it was the hype at launch which if players could not connect would lead to very negative PR. Not that their inaction towards hackers/twinks destroying their game helped. It was too late by the time they took any action and the game was FUBAR by then with probably 80-90% of the players having already quit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhole - Israphel View Post
that is because of a few things and nothing to do with gameguard. most of the koreans play the game from internet cafes, they get lots of bonuses while playing from these locations. you are not allowed to install anything there. lots of known pvpers play from these location and you know they are legit.

but look what rest of the server does, and what nice piece of software that gameguard is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Hca0IkcC8
this is from south korean L2

Bots and hacks are two different things unless you care to explain how they are not. One is a script the other is a client modification. Just because you can bot does not mean you can hack.

Where does it say that they all play from internet cafes? And since when has "not allowed" stopped anyone? You aren't allowed to hack, RMT, abuse glitches, etc but has that ever stopped anyone from doing so? Nope.


Quote:
in theory GG can stop. two things are true, this game engine is bad and GG is never a problem.
now every 3rd party software in L2 is mostly operating as network sniffer, leaving the client unaltered but in the first 4-5 years of the game, most of the data was obtained from memory. gameguard was completely disabled by these software and emulated to send the same stupid routine checking, that was the easy part. back in the day, lots of legit players who had problems every day with gameguard, were taking only the gameguard "fix" so they can play the game.. GG is just a toy to scary little children.
As I said it will not stop anyone who can actually hack, but most people, use the left overs of what these people sell for money. They themselves cannot hack. Stopping those select few should be in theory far better than catching the end users. It's pretty common knowledge currently that all the injections/edits for this version of Aion work due to it not having GG to actively protect against such manipulation. Hell, even the creators of all these cheats will admit to such, that their stuff would not work if there was GG in place.

I've played multiple GG protected games and I can most certainly say that while it did not stop bots - it stopped most hacks from functioning. That alone makes it worth the investment. Bots don't ruin my gameplay experience, hacks do. I'm pretty sure this is the same for most people. Bots cause the company grievance by the nature of RMT which means less revenue for them, for the average player bots reduce inflation, create supply and make everything cheaper for everyone; in a way, bots enhance one's gameplay experience.

I've also never once had a problem with GG on any computer I've sold, built for myself, did tech support on. Never. So I honestly do not get why people have issues with GG. The only computer that had issues was when the moron had cheat-engine installed and he was confused why GG shut his system down when he ran it.

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btw, innova company, the one that runs Aion in russia and L2 in russia and europe, has Frost. a much more aggressive software that scans every bit of your hard drive and memory and send the data to them. also has double encryption for game packets. guess what, it never stopped anything. the reason they have way lower number of bots and stuff is because they have a big number of GM's and events to hunt bots with rewards.
Refer to above, I'm fully cognoscente of the fact that GG will not stop bots. Bots are simply scripts run from one's computer to emulate actual functions, without being able to manipulate memory that is all they will ever be.

GG will stop memory manipulation which is what most of these hacks use.

If you don't mind do cite some evidence that they have more active GMs though, as well as the events with rewards - that is an interesting idea that should be ported over.

Quote:
PvP bots are the most concerning thing in L2 and currently the top clans in L2 got there by this. its not something that works for individual, its something that works for a full team. it communicate between players. do not confuse scripting in L2 with Aion. in L2 those programs support scripting, as in something similar to programming languages but easier. here is an example but very small, for individual, but as i said, can be way more complex: http://pastebin.ca/raw/2312502

now imagine your team vs a bot team. your team temp tries to drag the cleric. that cleric already put a shield in the moment the software saw the casting. the player doesnt move a finger. your cleric is casting a big heal. their software sees this and assign one team player to do a sure interrupt. someone is casting a big debuff, instant FE before you finished casting. those bot healers will know exactly who is targeted the most and will see incoming debuffs on that target and will cast cleanse right before your debuffs.

these are basic examples but these softwares also count the CD's of every enemy, what optimal skills to use, advance radar, distance awareness to awaid skills, automatic potions and a lot more. in real pvp it looks normal pvp except players reactions are insane and they mostly resist anything and assist anything automatically. lots of fraps on youtube like this. players just watch the screen. sad but true, and cant be detected.
Bots have always been undetectable since online gaming became a thing.

So how do they do it? Pull network packages out of the server even if they aren't being sent to their client? So if in your example temp A uses a skill cleric B can pull the data the server sent to temp A? So the server actually not only transmits the data to temp A but to every user around temp A? If this is the case then this is very bad design and insufficient package encryption on NC's part.

(I actually have no idea how these things work aside from a general read through of the topic at hand so a lot of this is actually me guessing).


Quote:
as i said, programs evolved and dont even get bothered by GG, because they dont read memory anymore.
Then they cannot alter anything within the client which is probably 90% of all hacking complaints. No animation hack, no speed hack, no glide hack but yes to radar hack as that relies on something else altogether.

Bots cannot be stopped anyways but GG WILL stop the most common grievances.


Quote:
there is such software for Aion, made by the same russians who made that crap for L2 and targeted for NA. it wasnt continued because most of them returned to L2 but it can be done and i think its done on a lower scale.
I'm not sure about this.

Quote:
watch the general forum in L2. lots of threads deleted but still many created every week about pvp bots. also many complains about chaos ceremony (something like chaos arena but no ticket and much better rewards) where real players cant sign because of limited arena numbers and pvp bots sign in the 0.0001 ms after the invite is available. fishing bots in pve areas like towns, horde of bots farming for top clans all over the map, automatic pvp in olympiad, castle sieges.
Bots will always be a problem in every game, this is a known fact. GG has never said it would defeat bots and no one aside from the utterly clueless would ever try to state otherwise.
Quote:
the game is dead, nc west doesnt even read complains anymore, they delete them and do nothing. as a result, real players or legit players are around that 1% as you said, not the other way around. rest of them cheat and brag about on other forums. they run bots and sell the currency to rmt websites or other players. its that bad and i see Aion NA as in the same position as L2 NA was 5 years ago. if koreans cant fix this in their own country, nothing cant be done here.
The game is not dead but due to it being F2P NC's quality of customer service has taken an abysmal drop. Most players are still legit, I'd estimate maybe 10-20% of the player base cheats by now, with more every day due to NC's inaction and seeming tolerance for said behavior.
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Last edited by Delessa -; 02-06-2014 at 10:27 PM.
  #64  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:34 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,147
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

So I've just received some news that may shock a few of you, but most of you will probably nod and go 'yup, sounds right'.

Many of the unbanned and not-punished people have deep pockets and lots of influence with NcKorean people. I've been told one of the people in particular that is notorious for hacking on Siel is a grandson of the NcSoft CEO.

Obviously NcNA can't confirm any of this because their jobs are on the line. That's just how things go sometimes. >_>

So NcNA can't punish certain people because they've been ordered not to do so by NcKorea. Discuss.
  #65  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Shadow of Azphel
  • Posts: 7,136
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notachant - Israphel View Post
I encountered 2 Asmos glad killing 2 full groups + 1 outsider (13 people) of Elyos in Silentera Canyon lol. We were amazed that we only managed to make their HP down 5-10% lol. 2 temps 2 clerics and bunches of sorc, sm and ranger. They even resisted SMs fear twice. They killed us all in like less than 2 minutes. This was last year just before 4.0 out tho. I also saw a lot of hackers in new maps (Katalam, Danaria, Idian Depths), this isn't surprising at all. You will meet at least 1 player hacking in a day if all you do is pvp. Quite funny to see what they can do with it.

Hacks in Aion NA is very concerning.
Perfect example of someone who knows nothing about hacks.
  #66  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:47 PM
Asmodians
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  • Posts: 1,147
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Seriously, ya'll don't want me to start posting YT videos showing very clearly step by step (idiot-proof) instructions on ways people can bypass GameGuard completely.

For all intents and purposes it won't stop any Aion hacking. They'll just disable GG, emulate the network output, and keep doing what they do.
  #67  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:50 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Shadow of Azphel
  • Posts: 7,136
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaya - Siel View Post
Problem is,

I know damn well if it was up to half of the retards on this game I'd be banned, and I've never hacked. But I probably get reported 10 times daily, and spend most of my day being shouted at "Hacker" even while I'm LIVE STREAMING...

People claim hacks all day long, and I'm sure a ton of people hack. But right now without something that DETECTS the hack I wouldn't trust NCSoft to handle it based off of peoples reports with their crappy ass PC's frapsing at 5 frames per second. I've only ever watched a handful of videos in years that I would confidently say were hacking. It's way too hard. You have to catch these things at the source. Bottom line.
You've destroyed me before. I don't think you're a hacker. But, let me go off my own personal experience.

There are a very large number of players on the Siel Asmo side that I gamed with when I first started that I met in IRC. They were called "pro" by basically everyone who ever played with them.

As I began to get to know these people, they invited me to their inner circle, where they explained the basic functioning of the most common hacks:

1) Radar hacking, a hack that displays the distance between yourself and a number of other registered items that overlays your in game screen.

2) No animation hacking - and here is where people who have never hacked and have no friends who admit to it fall short of assessing this problem.

A) No animation hacking does not work simply by turning the animation on, or off. It is not a 100% or 0% item. It has settings ranging from 1-1000. Most of the players I PVP'd with left their setting at 195. This gave the appearance that they were not hacking, but sped up their animations enough to be in line with what we generally associate with "WoW" or Word of Wind. This means that their animations would cancel fast enough that they could spam skills at the same speed they could if they were buffed with WoW.

- Want to test this? Have two players that keybind their skills and are considered "skilled" i.e. fast key presses. Next, knock this player down with a templar or glad. A hacking templar or gladiator will be able to get off 1-2 kd skills before the non hacking opponent is able to remove shock. Also, it works in the reverse, if a player is so fast on their remove shock that you see them stumble, but are unable to use your KD skill because they cancelled the animation on the remove shock, i.e. they are still stumbled on screen, but they are already auto attacking and or casting their remove shock skill before you can even breakpower or w/e that glad skill is, they are hacking. This is not a "no that person is just faster"..... No, you're lying, and you're a hacker if you agree with that statement, the fact is, that player, who somehow magically presses their remove shock and KD skills faster than any other opponent could without WoW, is hacking. They've turned their animation setting to a low value to avoid being caught openly, and they've made it so you can barely draw a line between a hacker and a legitimately good player.

B) This hack setting can not be applied to "1000" for melee users. By putting it at "1000" you run the risk of your melee animations being so fast that your skill presses from your keyboard get negated for auto attacks. Therefore you can't use skills because youre to busy auto attacking at "FLASH" speed.

3) Speed hacks - this is more of a teleportation hack that increases your characters run speed to the point where you gain a .3 to .4 edge in being able to stay on target. At it's lowest settings a leather class will appear to be un-kiteable due to their natural run speed buffs, at it's highest setting the opposing player will teleport around.

4) No gravity - this hack makes it so that your character stops in a position above the playable ground. It eliminates the rules of gravity.

5) No Clip - this allows players to walk through walls, and is a major way people in the level 50 range (hacking twinks etc.) farm hexway and other instances.

6) Autpot/Chain skil - ever feel like someone is always able to FE your IJ? Or always knows the exact moment to press an AP pot / heal pot to maximize their use of second wind or emp armor? That can be in relation to this, which triggers skill use upon other deciding factors. Because the chat log in Aion registers a skill cast before it takes place - a player using this hack can Focused Evade upon the signal from the chat log that the opponent has used Doom Lure. The program then automatically casts Focus Evade, and voila, you just FE'd doom lure like a magician pro that is just so great at this game.

How do you prove these things? It's legit not possible, if it was, they wouldn't be in game or exist.

The problem I have Vinley, is that, these players I'm referencing, that taught me all of this information? They used to say the same things you're saying now to the public.

"LOL everyone thinks im a Hacker because they just suck"

"I don't know why people accuse me of hacking, they're just bad"

Also, let's not mention that you can hack while streaming and it would be oblivious to the casual gamer or even those people who don't have the intimate knowledge I've stated above. You would just simply minimize the program and play in full screen. It hides itself so that if you were to take a screenshot it just appears as a random window on your desktop. They fixed this after that one templar from Israphel got himself busted.

So I'm sorry if I take your post with a grain of salt. The fact is, if you were a hacker, your post would be exactly the best kind of post to make to defend yourself from NCSoft.

"See NCSoft, I'm not hacking, you can't physically prove it, and I already warned you that people accuse me of hacking because they're just bad!"


The real answer is for NCsoft employee's to download the software, and figure out how to counter it.

Let me finish by saying I'm interested to see what the back lash to my post will be, undoubtedly a CM or VFM will remove it because it's so revealing, why keep the community informed that they can't actually save us from these programs? Instead leave them in the dark.

The other funny thing is all of these complaints about botters. How are you so naive about basic in game economics? Most of the farming materials, random kinah dumps, and stuff that drives the in game economy in Aion, is due to botters. In fact, I'd venture to say that removing botters completely from the MMO would kill the game.

Literally, it would kill the in game economy on multiple servers, killing Aion in the process. Asian MMO's are built on this factor. In fact, in most asian countries botting is considered okay by the general community. That is because the RNG factor in these games (enchant stones, manastones) drive players extremely mad, and the only way for a player with bad luck to counter this gambling mechanism is to buy kinah or bot kinah.

Last edited by Malagen - Siel; 02-07-2014 at 01:30 PM.
  #68  
Old 02-07-2014, 01:07 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Shadow of Azphel
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Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

looks like I killed another thread with over abundance of knowledge
  #69  
Old 02-07-2014, 01:23 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

If I were you I'd screenshot your posts and save them as images on a separate host. Then post them on AionSource or another community site before they get modded here.
  #70  
Old 02-07-2014, 02:51 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 65
Default Re: Serious Hacker Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkerposey - Siel View Post
So riddle me this, why is that I get a 3 day ban without a single email explaining why? Can you guys maybe fix that for the future? Getting a 3 day ban is one thing but getting it without REASON is another. Especially to people who spend money with y'all even though they shouldn't. That employees even you right? Or do you do this for free?
Bro you prolly got banned cos some random Nyerk report you hack lol, I known you and you know me, we run togather a few times in PvP(eye).
You prolly remember that I shot down one asmo sorc before he touch the ground gliding down from the WS in the eye.

Just like some people said, some people are soo bad and don't know how to use their skills we can sometime even 1 shot them or 2 shots. And as some other said just +15 ur nerking gear and you will see very few hackers.

Seriously, people you will most prolly get killed within 2/3 seconds if you keep running around with PvE gear, where people run with all +15 gear and arm to teeth looking for you lol.

Don't say everyone has a pvp gear that BM gear are just almost Nerking same as PvE gear.

Now thats with my Ranger, m lvl sorc lets see how many baddies complain and report me as hack.

SUCK IT UP YOU ARE JUST NOT GEAR ENOUGH AND YOU DON"T KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR CLASS ON TOP OF THAT.
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