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Old 04-28-2014, 11:31 AM
Asmodians
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Default The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

This is NOT a guide on how to do each instance. This is the basic knowledge you should know as a new player or an un-knowledgeable player joining instances. If there's some things you don't quite understand or know about instances in general or any particular instance.. THIS GUIDE IS FOR YOU.

I feel like I should make a guide for basic common sense when quick joining. I have found a lot of people join instances with little to no information and then end up trying to act like they understand. Let's be honest.... what's better, trying to act like you know your nyerk and possibly getting your group/alliance killed? Or actually know how to run the instance and helping win? Any who, here's some tips that everyone who pugs or does an instance for the first time should know. We all know how to group instance with friends/etc, I don't need trolls reminding people that and not everyone likes doing the same group all the time.


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PARTY/ALLIANCE ROLES
There are 2-3 roles depending on being in a party or alliance. these can easily be identified as a gold crown, silver crown, or nothing by your name in the party/alliance. This is here for people to understand what you are doing when you have one of these by your name or not.

CAPTAIN - GOLD Crown
This is the leader of the group or alliance. You are capable of marking targets, whether it should be who to recieve heals, who is to tank, who to kill first, 2nd, 3rd, etc, and what to do. You lead the group and direct them on what to focus dps/heals and all effort toward. This is one of the most important roles in any group, and it doesn't matter what class you are. So long as you can lead your group, chances are some people can do this without the crown but marking is always a useful tool to use when you have it. If you have this golden crown by your name and plan to afk or not use what you're leadership capabilities you've been given.. PASS IT TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW AND ISN'T AFK. Asking if they're afk or want lead is good, don't ever NOT ask.. that's bad. REALLY bad. Having leader when an instance starts is important so he/she can move members around the alliance before the instance starts. Grouping is very vital in certain instances and if you have Captain and can't do that, you need to ask and act fast before it's too late and screws up your alliance's positioning.

VICE CAPTAIN - GREY Crown
Vices can only be given in alliances and do play a valuable role just as the captain does. Vices are responsible for several of the following... 1. Leading their group of the alliance. 2. Marking when necessary when the captain cannot or no one else is. 3. working with the captain to take the appropriate action. Vice captains are like members of the alliance, they're still soldiers following directions from the captain but they have the ability to mark within the alliance and help your groups. You should follow vices just as you should follow your leader more-so.

GROUP/ALLIANCE MEMBER - No marking indicated
This is a role many... MANY people fail to understand is vital in working with groups. You are a member, a soldier. You are there to follow orders of the leader and or vices and carry out what you are assigned to do. If you don't dps with your group on mobs that are designated.. you're helping contribute to your group's failure. If you're not healing the member that requests heals or says specifically only to heal said person... you are contributing to failure. You are not a leader, you are not a vice, you are a member of the group/alliance. You do what you are assigned and work TOGETHER. You're not a rogue or someone who can lead the group. When you do the latter, you are diving people up and confusing everyone. This will not help at all if you are going off from the original plans designated by the captain. The captain's orders are only as valid as the soldiers in his group. If he's giving out the orders but you aren't following them.... Chances are, you and he/she will fail together. UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION AS A MEMBER, you carry out what you are told. Nothing more, nothing less. Think of it this way, would you liek to get blamed for disobeying against the plan? Or would you rather let the captain take blame for not doing a good enough job of leading? The choice is yours to work WITH your party/alliance, and that will determine whether you succeed or not.



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1. If you're asking yourself what you're about to do is a good idea or not. The chances are that it's not going to be a good idea. Such as, "what is this green boulder in T Dredgion?". If you're asking yourself that... you probably shouldn't attack it until you ask your group just what you're doing. It's never too late to ask and know for the future. It's better to feel slightly less superior than you want to than being flamed by your whole party and possibly costing you the instance win.


2. Is it your first time trying out an instance? If so, ask people what to do or where to go. So you don't know anything about a new environment, that's nothing to be ashamed of so long as you find out what to do. Haven't done "Engulfed Ophidan Bridge" before? Don't go to our allies sending them across the map as if you know that's what to do, just ask or let the leader of the group handle everything. Better him/her take responsibility/blame than you right? You can learn from another person's mistakes as well.

3. Did an item pop up on your left and you don't know what it is or it's rolling too fast for you to read what it's for? Like #1... chances are you don't know how to use it or what it does. Then gracefully press the pass button. If you don't know how to use an item, you probably don't need it in the instance. Such as "Kamar's Battlefield", if you see cannonballs rolling up... Don't just assume you can use them if you aren't 100% sure you can. Only someone with siege fuel and possession of the tank can use it. Over the course of items being looted and showing up on the loot queue, you will have time to hover your mouse and read what each item does. However the longer you take, the longer that item waits to go into someone else's inventory. So when you DO know what items you can't and can use... pass or roll asap. It's that much sooner to help someone else or yourself. Don't take an ite you end up never using when your group/alliance could use it.

4. Try not to quick join. Get friends/legionmates/experienced players to join a group for the instance with you. They can explain it to you beforehand. Don't be afraid to ask questions ever, better now than during the instance itself and possibly get your group killed. We all make mistakes and have bad runs but knowing before you run it can be much more helpful than going in blindly. Get some friends and run a group instance together rather than using quick join that may end up getting you afk players, classes you don't need, or complete noobs who have ignored #'s 1 through 3. You have a search group function when you press Shift + V, don't forget to use it. When someone joins, ask them if they can show/teach you or what you need to know.

5. Don't act like a rogue. Teamwork is the most viable aspect of every single bit of Aion. If your group is off trying to pvp and you're off getting points in another area or solo pvping.... you're both going to fail. You will be zerged, and your group's numbers will be lacking your support. every person makes a difference, your contribution will aid in your group's survival and success. Most importantly, COMMUNICATE. If it's through ventrillo, skype, or just the chat, find some way that everyone together can know what the other is planning to do. Work TOGETHER, if you spend all your time fighting each other's decisions than your opponent.... you're pretty much zerging yourself.

6. Afking. If you don't think you can stay or you're just plain lazy to do an instance but want the benefits? Believe it or not, people make groups for it. Even generals/officers get lazy from time to time. Don't see any AFK groups on the list? MAKE ONE. No one will think any less of you, in fact they'll consider you humble for not quick joining and ruining someone else's run by being afk. You will lose either in an afk group or joining and afking in the group.... Wouldn't you rather not burden another team that actually wants to try? from time to time, you may find yourself up against an afk group and your team may actually put up a little effort to make it a win. Consider others before yourself for a moment, don't join randomly and afk on the spot. Join a premade afk group and go watch youtube, post on the forums, or just do whatever. I'm in a premade T dredgion group as I'm typing this. I'm not cursing someone else's instance by being an afk dispeller/healer/support. The worst you can do for a group is be a class they need(such as a plate tank or a healer) and then afk for them... ruining any chance of the group getting a potentially active healer/tank.

7. Did you JUST hit level 46, 51, 56, 61? Excited to run this new instance that's popped up on your queue? We all are, but if you don't review steps 1-6, and you're quick joining... you will end up making your group suffer. For each instance you enter at those levels, you will find yourself a little under the level for the mobs and enemy you're pvping. Both gear-wise and skill-wise you will be at a big disadvantage. Unless you're twinking out and know the instance by heart... I discourage quick joining as soon as you hit that level mark unless you know a good team that can help "carry your weight". It's harsh and probably a little selfish too, but think about it. You're level 51, you've had the gear you had since 46 probably in platinum coin gears.. maybe not even full mithrils coin gear yet. The mobs are all around 55 and you may not have even run the instance before. Your group sure can't do it alone, and your skills/gear may not be enough to stay alive or help your team. Level up a bit more, let people try and get a decently geared/skilled/leveled team going, let yourself focus on leveling a bit more. In the mean time, you can always afk dredge or find a pro legion/group that doesn't mind bringing you along to the instances. So long as you're not bringing a disadvantage to another group.

8. The difference between motivation and flaming is how you say it. If someone has screwed up royally.... don't go around rubbish talking their server, that person, and making your whole group listen to this 1v1 flame war. Just take a deep breathe in reality and let them know what they've done. Have a little patience, not everyone may be as knowledgeable, but they can be once you let them know. Rather than demoralize the person into ever wanting to run instances again(and trust me... people do feel this way about A LOT of instances once they mess up once.), give them advice to better themselves. Make them feel like they could try again and do better the next time rather than feeling miserable and never wanting to come back. I met people who didn't want to run "Engulfed Ophidan Bridge" and "Iron Wall Warfront" because someone in their group decided to tell them how badly they are doing at their class than how they could improve. As for the players being told how to do better... don't throw a fit and say "I'M TRYING". Be patient, know you're doing your best and just shrug off what the person may be saying. It can be helpful what they're telling you, or you may already know, regardless, they're concern is necessary for group cooperation/teamwork. Don't take it as an insult, lower your pride just a tad and realize you can accept that maybe things need to change/improve to succeed. No one will think any less of you for giving advice or taking it.

9. COMMUNICATION. IS. KEY. I hate to repeat myself, but this is the prime difference in your group scattering from points A, B, C, and D, to actually going together from A to B, to C, to D as a team. Talk to your group, use marks to know which mobs to sleep/attack. Marking helps more than you think, imagine all your group's dps combined into 1 mob.. it'll go down that much faster and you can work onto your next target. Don't shrug the marks and attack another mob just because, WORK WITH your allies. You all share the common interest in success and loot, so why not help each other reach that goal faster?

10. Last of all, just be courteous. You don't have to talk rubbish to one another or your opponent just to feel good about yourself. True pride comes from knowing how strong you are without someone's approval. I was in an instance the other day where the person literally could not stop claiming how the Kahrun server was the "best". To a point where he literally wanted to hear me say it, I shrugged it off and said "sure". Do I believe it? Better question.... Does it matter? If it helps your group get through without arguing, drama, and etc.... Who cares about another person's opinion? They're just opinions... what you know and think about yourself is all that should matter. Not to an egotistic/narcissistic point... but just to a point where you understand your limits and your capabilities. Anyone who compliments you, consider that icing on the cake and appreciate it. Don't turn it into "I AM THE MIGHTIEST DAEVA ALIVE, BOW TO ME". An Ego can actually get you killed.... I would know, seen a lot of players run into a field spamming emotes with a templar body-guarding them and then suddenly their HP goes from 100 to 0 all because of an over inflated ego. Be nice to your allies and be competitively friendly to your opponent... no one likes rubbish talk and no one wants to hear it. It'll make your experience in Aion that much better.

What's the most important thing to know from all these? THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. You have the time, and when you don't have time... then you can act.


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Let's discuss aggro and positioning~

Mobs in instances can be odd. Some will follow you until the ends of Aion until your body or theirs is dead. Some have a very short range and will completely reset within the area. Depending on your class, you have a few options. this also depends if you are alone or with your group.

1. Are you out there alone and a mob or few has latched onto you? You can accepts death and let the mobs kill you so the mobs don't train onto a teammate that may be passing by. If you know they're going to follow you till the end, that's usually a better option unless you think you can kill one. Taking one with you is always a nice plus for your team. If you're alone, you don't have much to do but figure out how you're going to survive or how the situation you're in can help benefit your team.

2. With a group that's getting too many mobs at once? Some classes that are meant to dps, support, etc. However you may have options on you that could save your team's life. Keeping your healers and tanks alive would help a ton since they will return the favor. Classes like gunslingers, and gladiators have sleep/roots to help control the mobs around you. The key factor in this is that you understand what's being attacked and what isn't. If there's a mob asleep.... you prolly shouldn't wake it up if there's a million other mobs attacking your team. Handle 1 at a time, the faster 1 goes down, the faster the next will. If you can help delay a mob's attack by stunning/rooting/sleeping/silencing/blinding then go for it. Ranger's have aoe blind traps and an evasion buff, that can help lead mobs away. You can also kite them off if you can dps enough to steal aggro off the mob and then keep on running. So long as you know you can take the damage the mob may be able to dish out from a range.

3. Talk to your group. I was in Kamar's Battlefield inside one of our tanks. I grabbed some mobs and my group stared blankly at me thinking I could handle it. I had little to no cannonballs on me so I said "Plz help take these guys off me" and luckily, the templar did so and the cleric healed me. Get your group to follow you or assist you. Overall teamwork will be beneficial to everyone.

4. Like I mentioned earlier, mobs can latch or stay put. If you've got a bunch on your tail and the opposing pvp team is headed your way. You can use the art of training. If you're fast enough or tanky enough... you can grab all of the mobs and run into the other team with them. Once they attack you/kill you or aoe at all... they'll have mobs and your team attacking all the way. Be careful with this though, it can backfire and cause a lot of mistakes and flaming. Training isn't looked kindly upon, seeing as how a team could be working hard to get to the end of T dredge when suddenly you find a tank running your way with a train of mobs behind him. This tactic is more useful in a last ditch effort to save yourself or help your team by disadvantaging your opponent. Doing it on purpose can lead to many backfires, such as losing points or leading them to your own team, or giving your opponent a train of their own.

5. You can be 1 of 2 types of attackers depending on your class. Ranged, or melee. Mobs that like to stay put like in Engulfed Ophidan Bridge have a "reset" Resetting basically means the mob decides to blow you off and return to it's spot back to full hp as well as any buffs it may have had. Bosses and mobs can do this, and you won't like it when it happens. Majority of the time, melee classes will tank such mobs within the area and the team will help dps it. If you're a ranged class and manage to get aggro from it and it starts going toward you when you're not within it's area.... You can screw up the team's effort by having it reset. You can be a ranged class and still be within the vicinity of a mob's aggro range. No one likes blowing a ton of MP and skill cooldowns on the same mob when it already restored it's HP to normal. This goes for healers and support classes too.. heals can gain aggro, so your positioning is just as vital as anyone else.

6. Is someone trying to train you? Well put yourself in their position. They want to train you, they don't want to be stopped and die to their own train... they want to let you take them. So what does that mean? Root/stun/stop them in their tracks. This can prevent your team from possibly wiping or having to do more work or concentrate on more than they need to. You still have to keep in mind your distance between the mobs the person has trained even when they're stopped or dead. Or otherwise they've successfully trained you. You can also just run and avoid the train or try to lead the person leading the train into an off direction away from your team. This can go hand in hand with number 4 as I mentioned you can lead the mobs away from your team to prevent loss of points.

7. Lastly, a big difference between the stationary mobs and aggroing ones. The ones that follow you will not just reset back to position. They will take their time and if anything comes across them, they will aggro it and once again latch on. Picking an appropriate time to resurrect as well as moving from point A to point B can be very important based just on this. Mobs you may see like in EOB will reset and instantly run back to where they're supposed to be. Rooting these while they're on the way or stopping them in any way will have them teleport back to position. They won't aggro anything unless they're attacked again after being reset(such as damage over time skills).

The range of aggro can be found in your mini radar in the bottom-right hand of the screen when you target a mob. You can use that to judge where you should move between mobs and what it's range of aggro is. Some mobs like to latch, others have a distance at which they reset. How do you find out? Just play and work with your group. The general rule to kill a mob though is to be near it and not aggro more than it. This can save you the trouble of finding out; but when someone makes a mistake, you will see and learn from it. It's all about your judgement on how to deal with the situation.

Just remember to THINK before you act.
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Last edited by SirShadow - Siel; 11-26-2014 at 12:40 AM.
  #2  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:03 PM
Elyos
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

There's a green boulder in dredg?
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelar - Israphel View Post
There's a green boulder in dredg?
The thing that turns on the shield in the middle when you destroy it. It looks like a green rock to me... It's only in T dredgion iirc.
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Last edited by SirShadow - Siel; 04-28-2014 at 12:25 PM.
  #4  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:11 PM
Elyos
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

Good post. There's some stuff I'd add though.

HEALERS:
These are 3 healing classes as of 4.5: Cleric, Chanter, and Bard. Whether or not you think you are a healing class, Quick Join will certainly treat you as thus, and therefore you should join the instance knowing full well that there is the possibility of you ending up as the only healer. How Quick Join works, is it will always reserve a slot for one of these 3 classes, and since there is often a shortage of healers in Quick Join queues, there will usually only be 1 healer per group. Thus, you should always have healing spec prepared if you are to quick enter an instance.

This point adds on to the AFK portion in Shadow's post. If you are one of these 3 classes, DO NOT AFK. You are ruining the entire run for other people if you do so, because, as I mentioned, the quick entry system often puts only one healer per group and your AFK'ing thus leads to a no heal situation. The keystone class of any instance group is the healer. Unless your quick group happens to be composed of DPS classes who are highly skilled and geared and able to coordinate well, especially in Engulfed Ophidan Bridge/Kamar Battlefield and to a lesser extent dredge, then they will be unable to do much at all in the instance. Even if they are highly geared and skilled, it will still make them unable to DPS and capture bases/points at full speed, and they will be heavily handicapped in both PvE and PvP aspects of the instance.

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In EOB, aside from the 3 mobs in front of a barricade, mobs will reset if they are brought outside of a camp. This speaks in particular to ranged classes. The tank is not always going to be super geared in a quick queue and have amazing aggro abilities. People are also going to be doing these instances in PvP gear, where there is no enmity reduction/increase. If you are standing outside a camp and you start to pull aggro, causing the mob to exit the camp, you can reset it and waste all the DPS your group just did. Ranged DPS does not mean always standing 25m or whatever distance away from the mob. Sometimes it is better being clustered together at melee range. I have had quick join runs where the entire win was basically counting on killing the opponent's 30k mob and at the last few minutes one person reset the mob when it was below 10%.

If you are not sure where to stand, use basic judgement and do not go outside the general domain of the mobs your group is trying to kill. ie. dredge rooms, iron wall camps, EOB generator rooms.

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Basic kill hierarchy:
Sometimes your group cannot hold your hands through everything and do "communication" as Shadow said for every single kill, whether it is PvP or PvE. If a mark is not up yet or they have not called out a name, do a quick scan of the area. The general priority of kill order is going to be
  1. Mages/Bard
  2. Scouts/Leathers
  3. Chain
  4. Warrior/Plate/Aethertech

In PvE, the mages will always be killed first and then the healer mobs second followed by scouts and warriors. If some of the mobs are CC'ed, obviously the CC'ed ones are to be killed last and you should move on to the next priority on the list.

This order will have variations based on your group composition, ie. if you are primarily squishies like cloth/leather, you will want to take out the rangers first.

If there are 2 healers or more which is often the case when you are against premade groups, you want to focus the healers first, in particular bard > cleric > chanter. If there are doubles of the same class, look at which one of them has less HP hence the one which is focused more and go for them first
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Last edited by Aethyria - Siel; 04-28-2014 at 12:14 PM.
  #5  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:13 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

Can't agree on some of them, but someone tell the baddies about the concept of good and bad touch of a shielded target. Some people just don't understand that sometimes dpsing a shielded target is a big no-no, A BIIGG NO-NO.

Last edited by Duvaji - Siel; 04-28-2014 at 07:39 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:14 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 787
Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

Dumbed down version:
1. Ask if you are trying anything new or don't know what to do in any circumstance
2. Make friends and communicate as often as you can, whether it be PvP or PvE
3. Enter dredge in groups with said friends
4. Uncoordination sucks. Avoid it
5. Gear up
6. Don't flame, troll and be nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelar - Israphel View Post
There's a green boulder in dredg?
Yeah, for activating a shield
  #7  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:24 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

I appreciate the additions. I'm trying not to make it a "how to play" guide, that should come instinctively and naturally. Mostly just for joining the instance and dealing with the environment you're in. If you're a full dps chant, I won't force you to heal... even if it'd be beneficial.

This is all basic remember, not a "pro" guide on what you should do given every moment. If a chanter/sw needs to heal and isn't heal, this guide is letting people know you don't have to be afraid to ask or give advice to that chanter/sw. The decisions you make are up to you, just be smart and not so high up so you can work together with your fellow daeva. That's all this guide is saying really lol.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:49 PM
Elyos
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

another little thing for the pvp ones, just to elaborate on your point

for those heros out ther, dont go chasing after an enemy player thats wandering off after your group wiped all but that runner, if anything let a scout do it, ther speed+burst+stealth means they "may" be able to take that person out faster than any other, even then its not wise, as that burst may be needed by the group as a whole either to take out other targets or to put pressure on anyone attacking your group+stopping a scout sneaking up on your own group. whats worse if you go wandering off, that puts pressure(not matter what class you are) on the support classes, as i tell everyone in every single pvp encounter "you want to wander off and be a hero, let me know how that goes" same for sieges and everything, i stay with the bulk of the group, ther survival is my survival. as much as i like to high horse clerics cos wer just amazing, we are still only as good as our team.

prime example was in arena, i did a QE, was in full heal spec(as mentioned above, slim change that ther would be another full heal spec cleric in my group or the other) so only fair i went in heal spec, i was grouped with two glads, we faced two sins and a cleric, this was ouch time. or so i thought, the glads stuck to me like glue, the sins only ever managed to get a couple of hits on me before the glads wer on them like *insert nasty mental image*, they didnt let me die once, i didnt let them die once


tldr : DONT WANDER OFF CHASING you may have wiped an enemy group pretty easily but your missing contribution could tip that balance



lastly. dont be a d!ck. bad things happen, cant always be helped, thats what makes the game challenging but learn form any mistake, yours or others




edit : great tippy thread Sirshadow ^^
  #9  
Old 04-28-2014, 01:01 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Sielís Tribune
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

ty =)

I do think this may belong in the pve section instead. Would make more sense I suppose since instances are usually more based around pve and this guide is more for that. My bad for posting here lol, if I could have it moved and stickied, I'd really appreciate it :X
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2014, 02:02 PM
Elyos
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Default Re: The Basic "Do's and Don'ts" of Quick Join Instances.

The instances that allow quick entry are all instanced PvP, so this is probably where it belongs.

Also,

If the tank is waiting outside a room not making a pull yet, DO NOT DO IT FOR HIM. There is probably a good reason they are waiting, ie. patrols. A poorly timed pull from another group member at the wrong time can lead to aggro of the entire room and a subsequent wipe.
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Last edited by Aethyria - Siel; 04-28-2014 at 02:05 PM.
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