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  #21  
Old 10-18-2015, 01:42 AM
Elyos
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
SKILL ATTACK Increases with BASE ATTACK and SUPPLEMENTARY ATTACK on BOTH WEAPONS. Only Supplementary stats on weapons affect skill damage, and manastoned attack has no affect on skill damage.
You might wanna rephrase the last sentence to make it less ambiguous.
Manastone attack does not increase the skill damage in the tooltip description, but when using skills manastones actually do increase the damage the skill usage does.

Quote:
Crit Strike: Your chance to critically hit. A Dagger and a Sword will crit for the same amount of damage given that they are equal weapons, this is due to to Daggers having a higher critical modifier and Swords having greater damage.
No, they won't. Daggers might have a higher crit modifier to offset the lower attack, but they will not crit for the exact same amount of damage.
This damage difference becomes even larger if you include skill damage and manastones.
In terms of crit strike the biggest difference between dagger and sword, aside from the crit modifier, is that daggers have 100 base crit while swords have only 50 base crit

Quote:
Atk Speed: Your Auto Attack Swing Cooldown. Your % based Attack Speed bonuses also reduce Skill Animation time by an equal amount. Maximising Attack Speed will come naturally with gear.

What is the most Attack Speed we can get solo?
9% From Scroll
8% On Gloves
4% On Title (BCM)
19% On Weapon
20% With Flurry
You might want to mention that attack speed is capped at 50%.

Quote:
Magical Accuracy is a 2 roll check:
1. Your Penetration vs Their Resistance (Penetration-Resistance)/10=Skill Land
2. Your Magical Accuracy vs Their Magical Resist (Mag Accuracy-Mag Resist)/10=Resist Chance

The second roll caps at 50%. Each of these rolls are independent
You might want to change it "You have at least a chance to 50% to land a skill regardless of your MA vs their MR". Saying MA vs MR has a cap of 50% implies that you only have a max chance of 50% to actually land a skill effect.

Quote:
Sword Main - Dagger Off :Third, second
The least tested combo. Highest overall Skill damage output, but a very odd feeling weave speed. Apparently on KR this is a very popular combo.
This is absolutely not true. Sword/Dagger:
-has the least crit modifier (sword in mainhand)
-has less crit strike (sword has only 50 base crit)
-bad skill damage (due to dagger offhand)
-low attack speed (sword mainhand)

I don't see how this all would result in "highest skill damage output" and being popular. If this truly is a very popular combo on KR can you point me to a single good equipped and skilled KR player who does NOT use this combo for jokes and laughs?

Quote:
Block: Dumbass
Parry: Asshat

Magic Boost: As of 4.8; Assforbrains

Crit Spell: Deadnyerk
Healing Boost: Assface
Cast Speed: Dirtlicker
If you want to have your guide taken seriously then you might want to change that. Using childish expressions like these in a guide is not a good thing. Either mention why these stats are useless or simply write "useless for sins".


Other than that, nice compilation of info. I enjoyed reading it.
  #22  
Old 10-18-2015, 02:21 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiisaichan - Siel View Post
You might wanna rephrase the last sentence to make it less ambiguous.
Manastone attack does not increase the skill damage in the tooltip description, but when using skills manastones actually do increase the damage the skill usage does.

I'll rephrase a lot when I get to an updated version

No, they won't. Daggers might have a higher crit modifier to offset the lower attack, but they will not crit for the exact same amount of damage.
This damage difference becomes even larger if you include skill damage and manastones.
In terms of crit strike the biggest difference between dagger and sword, aside from the crit modifier, is that daggers have 100 base crit while swords have only 50 base crit

They will crit for roughly the same, with neither being the straight victor or loser.


You might want to mention that attack speed is capped at 50%.

In update

You might want to change it "You have at least a chance to 50% to land a skill regardless of your MA vs their MR". Saying MA vs MR has a cap of 50% implies that you only have a max chance of 50% to actually land a skill effect.

Again, I'll add caps when I get a chance to revise the entire thing

This is absolutely not true. Sword/Dagger:
-has the least crit modifier (sword in mainhand)
-has less crit strike (sword has only 50 base crit)
-bad skill damage (due to dagger offhand)
-low attack speed (sword mainhand)

I don't see how this all would result in "highest skill damage output" and being popular. If this truly is a very popular combo on KR can you point me to a single good equipped and skilled KR player who does NOT use this combo for jokes and laughs?

Your offhand contributes it's Enchanted Attack and Supplementary attack only to skills regardless of what weapon it is. As you will be taking the Swords higher skill damage contribution from mainhand in addition to a higher overall attack speed from taking dagger offhand, I can understand how it will deal a high skill damage output.

If you want to have your guide taken seriously then you might want to change that. Using childish expressions like these in a guide is not a good thing. Either mention why these stats are useless or simply write "useless for sins".

I had originally written a lot more, but there is a character limit on the aion forums, and I had to quickly remove a lot of content, hence why I reserved another post. I was also well tired by then. Same as the first couple answers.

Other than that, nice compilation of info. I enjoyed reading it.
Thankyou, and thankyou for the tips. I will get around to them. Eventually.
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Last edited by Mempo -; 10-18-2015 at 02:23 AM.
  #23  
Old 10-21-2015, 06:53 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Minor updates reflecting the last few pages of comments.
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  #24  
Old 11-05-2015, 05:45 AM
Elyos
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
Resignet Assault: My pick. Resignet-Massacre = 4 Carve from range. That means 4 carve from ping for those not in the United States. I have found it to be very useful across every class encounter since I began using it. It can take getting used to the idea of using a Rune Burst BEFORE carving, but it will quickly sink in. Note that the SECOND strike which carves the Runes is based on the Physical Crit table, but not affected by your Attack (Observations only).
I just did some testing.
Resignet Assault is affected by atk (weapon atk, bonus atk and manastone atk) aswell as all %atk buffs and Killers Eye.

It's physical skill damage is quite weak, about on the same level as sigil strike, however with 5 runes the combo of magic hit + physical hit can hit quite hard (almost as much as back breaker).
  #25  
Old 11-08-2015, 05:29 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiisaichan - Siel View Post
Resignet Assault is affected by atk (weapon atk, bonus atk and manastone atk) aswell as all %atk buffs and Killers Eye
Interesting. I thought it was possibly affected by base, but if it's getting green attack as well then it might be worth throwing in as a way of extending a burst phase.
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Assassin Guide - http://forums.na.aiononline.com/na/showthread.php?p=2012210
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  #26  
Old 11-08-2015, 07:20 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Magical defense functions the exact same as physical defense, at a 10:1 ratio in damage reduction. It's... for the lack of better words, completely useless.

Where did you do your damage calculations? White and green attack both factor into skills. White damage is basically just your weapon damage - this is the only thing that skills like DA, DF, Devotion, etc scale to when calculating the boost. No bonus stats are accounted for. The only way to raise base damage is by enchanting, there is nothing else one can do to gain base damage. Bonus attack adds onto skills at the exact value they are at.

Damage to our knowledge is basically:

((skill min + your attack value -> skill max + your attack value) - target defense) * critical modifier (if any) / negative critical modifier (strike fortitude for example) = damage

That's PVE.

PVP, PVP att/def% is factored in somewhere in between before a global final reduction is done on top of all damage.

One of the primary reasons to use a main hand dagger stats aside is the 2.3x modifier on critical hits. Basically on low damage hits you can't tell but once you go over 2k damage, you start seeing significant differences.

Here is a spreadsheet that was made back in 2.0 to track our own damage and our progression as it happened - ugh that brings back things one would rather forget - namely the neutered sin status.


One has to manually modify the values to suit the game now as obviously, one does not have only 25% PVP attack/defense anymore and one does not only have 600 attack anymore. PVP reduction was raised to 75%, etc. Might get around to changing that.

Our ability to make decent spreadsheets was utterly lacking years ago. Should remake this entirely.

EDIT:

Actually will remake that, removed link.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...zlrbGE4Q0hSTnc

Input your own values into the sheet and you're pretty much good to go.

Some work is needed to add formula for the various buffs that add extra damage, for the damage ranges that you can deal per skill per strike, target's damage reduction buffs, block value, parry values, etc, but to be honest, that is a lot of work and don't have the time to do all of that right now.
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Last edited by Delessa -; 11-08-2015 at 08:36 PM.
  #27  
Old 11-08-2015, 08:00 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delessa - Tiamat View Post
Too much for phone atm
Really, supplementary attack, Base and manastone attack all function slightly different, affecting different things in different ways. They all contribute to strike damage, but not all in the same way.

For example skill min and max damage is not affected by manastone attack, but it is affected by weapon supplementary attack. Supplementary attack however is not modified by buff skills like devotion, where as base attack is. They all however will increase the final damage of each strike.

I tested this all by taking multiple weapons in game that had exactly the same base stats, but with different attack tunes, swapping between them and observing the differences.

I'll clarify how they interact when I have time to update.

And so magic defence is just flat spell dam reduction. So it's useful to have against SMs and Gunners. If it's anything like phys def then it's probably very underrated though.
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  #28  
Old 11-08-2015, 09:07 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

M defense is completely useless against anything. There is no base magical defense stat that comes with armor or it could be useful against DoTs but well, it doesn't work that way currently. Most you can do is basically reduce all magical attacks by roughly 10-20 points of damage with full +15. It's lack luster to put it lightly.

Edited last post, feel free to plug some numbers and run them against what you see in game - we estimate it to be roughly 80% accurate +/- 10% due to input errors.

Skill damage is simply, skill damage min + your damage -> skill damage max + your damage and it will roll somewhere in between there discounting any and all defenses of the target. What is commonly forgotten when doing stat calculations though is the "power" stat in your character screen.

Damage in a nut shell is your list damage in character screen + what the skill says then other modifiers are applied.

Buffs on the other hand only apply their % to your weapon's average damage which is modified by the power stat and nothing else.

As an assassin's "power" stat is 110, we effectively have 10% increased attack which is applied to the weapon's base damage including enchants. Sins also have a base damage value of 30 (can't log in right now so not sure if this was changed) and this goes towards the max attack value of the weapon but not the min, this seems strange, but it was the only thing that made the math make any sense at all otherwise would have missing attack somewhere. Then again, these models are all built on theorycrafting as NC has never and will never tell us the actual mechanics.

And as with damage testing on damage range weapons - it's literally impossible to get any sort of exact figure. Magical damage on the other hand... with it's set in stone fixed values - those are easy to determine.
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Last edited by Delessa -; 11-08-2015 at 09:28 AM.
  #29  
Old 11-08-2015, 04:06 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delessa - Tiamat View Post
M defense is completely useless against anything. There is no base magical defense stat that comes with armor or it could be useful against DoTs but well, it doesn't work that way currently. Most you can do is basically reduce all magical attacks by roughly 10-20 points of damage with full +15. It's lack luster to put it lightly.

Skill damage is simply, skill damage min + your damage -> skill damage max + your damage and it will roll somewhere in between there discounting any and all defenses of the target. What is commonly forgotten when doing stat calculations though is the "power" stat in your character screen.

Damage in a nut shell is your list damage in character screen + what the skill says then other modifiers are applied.

As an assassin's "power" stat is 110, we effectively have 10% increased attack which is applied to the weapon's base damage including enchants
I would consider magical defence useful, against SMs and Gunners. 20 damage off a 500 damage attack will add up.

Skill tooltip damage changes in accordance with weapon base and supplementary attack. Try it yourself with a few modor weapons. This indicates that it behaves differently to manastone attack.

When I have a templar with a physical defence set able to help me do some tests I'll be able to nail down exactly how each of the attacks differ and how they interact. But they do all behave slightly differently while achieving the same things.

Power might affect each of these differing attack stats differently as well.
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  #30  
Old 11-08-2015, 08:08 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Aion Assassin Gear And Stat Information Guide

To our understanding that is part of the "weapon power" bonus, different weapons have different ranges, the sin passive attack buffs (maybe) as well as the power stat factor into this and give some sort of hidden boost that cannot be increased and is specific to the properties of each individual weapon.

This seems to be the difference of average weapon damage + 50% from total buffs that is added onto skill damage.

Eg:

Sigil Strike's range goes from 367 base with a weapon that has 229 average to 383 base on a weapon that has 236 average. The difference of 16 would appear to roughly correspond to the difference in average damage * 1.5.

It would seem tooltips have changed somewhat since, skill damages used to be static and unchanging - making it far easier to calculate.

It would add up if enough time was accounted for or at lower levels where the base damage is actually low enough for it to count for something. Fights however, do not last long enough for a 20 damage reduction to matter. If magical defense was added as a base stat to armor however, it would be highly effective against DoT based attacks due to the substantially lower base damages and the damage per tick.

Gunner skills have a different meta in that their MB boost factor is 400:1 as opposed to 1300:1, 1 being a 100% increase of base damage. Gunners consequently are far more affected by MS but are also far more devastating against low MS targets.
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Last edited by Delessa -; 11-08-2015 at 08:43 PM.
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