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  #1  
Old 04-04-2016, 10:43 AM
Asmodians
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Default Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

I need to cut one of these two stigmas from my setup for Paralysis cannon, but I'm not sure which one will be more valuable.

I'd like some advice. I want to use a full cannon (no arguing or reasoning possible as I'm sure of that) setup, which utilizes Shock and Awe, Frozen Blitz, Missile Guide, Paralysis Cannon, Shellshock, and either Stopping Power or Juggernaut cannon. I want this to be viable for both PvE and PvP purposes. Which stigma seems more valuable overall?

Thanks in advance for the help.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2016, 10:56 AM
Elyos
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Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Stopping power is not very good under any circumstances. You do not want paralysis in PVE too obviously.

Pressurized chamber offers the same PVP damage increase against players on a 30 second lower cooldown and has the benefit of buffing your pistols for way longer.

If you're going to run paralysis, I recommend just going dazzling/paralysis/juggernaut or pressurized/paralysis/juggernaut. You do lose hemo shot in this build tho which kind of sux.

You're going to want the pulverizer stigma as it's by far the best. The other two are super mediocre and pulverizer hits hard and full heals you if it hits even 1 mob.
  #3  
Old 04-04-2016, 12:21 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Juggernaut cannon is op as hell. That's all ima say.
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2016, 02:06 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Juggernaut cannon is Very good, stopping power is meh...

I actually recommend hemorrhage shot even for a full cannon build you are going to end up switching to pistols for self mana and heals, Hemorrhage shot is just plain awesome and it fills in when you are in pistol mode.

I've been almost exclusively cannon using this build. Currently I can't think of any changes I would make.

http://aion.mouseclic.com/tool/stigma/jPCDKMO65
  #5  
Old 04-04-2016, 05:17 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frakk - Siel View Post
Juggernaut cannon is Very good, stopping power is meh...

I actually recommend hemorrhage shot even for a full cannon build you are going to end up switching to pistols for self mana and heals, Hemorrhage shot is just plain awesome and it fills in when you are in pistol mode.

I've been almost exclusively cannon using this build. Currently I can't think of any changes I would make.

http://aion.mouseclic.com/tool/stigma/jPCDKMO65
Thank you, this is an actual helpful answer. I've got a couple questions: First off, what's your opinion on Shellshock? Since I want to run a setup (mostly) fit for both PvE and PvP (maybe only switching out a stigma or two for super serious PvE) and it makes up a good 10-15% of my overall damage it seems quite important, along with the fact that the damage on it is quite great.
I'm also wondering, why not run Paralysis cannon? It seems like a very strong utility tool and I think that it can come in handy even if it's not too much use in PvE.

Since I haven't been PvPing mainly due to lack of competent gear, I've not been able to test out my ideal setup for it, I only know that Shellshock and Blazing Bombardment make up the majority of my (stigma) PvE damage in the current setup - only outdamaged by Incendiary Shell.

I already have found that my main issue is greater stigmas over anything and I'd like to figure out what's best, though I suppose it's slightly dependant on preferences, but I'm interested to see your opinion and possible options.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2016, 05:52 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Shellshock is what I took out for hemorrhage shot it was either that or Blazing bombardment. I kept blazing for the fire debuff in part for the other fire based skills but also because it is useful for burying silence. Shellshock does more damage but its mana drain is instant and it doesn't leave a debuff for silence bury.

Para I avoided because its mostly useless in pve, group pvp its mediocre if thy have a competent dispelling cleric, it shines in 1v1 pvp though. It is to situational for my tastes.

Adding a keybind for weapon switching that is just "Z" makes weapon switches much smoother BTW (THX Glint)
  #7  
Old 04-04-2016, 08:54 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 3
Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyriox - Siel View Post
I'd like some advice. I want to use a full cannon (no arguing or reasoning possible as I'm sure of that) setup, which utilizes Shock and Awe, Frozen Blitz, Missile Guide, Paralysis Cannon, Shellshock, and either Stopping Power or Juggernaut cannon. I want this to be viable for both PvE and PvP purposes. Which stigma seems more valuable overall?
Juggernaut Cannon. It's a skill that's always used imo.

This is from the point of a view of a predominantly PvE player on a pure raw DPS point of view. WARNING: LONG POST

Setup:

For optimal DPS, I find you really have to utilize both weapons. I'm like 65/35 when it comes to using Cannon and Pistol. The problem with Gunner stigmas is that you have too many skills to cram into just 6 stigma slots (I honestly think NCSoft did a terrible job picking the stigmas that became default skills for Gunners). As for best PvE stigma setup for raw damage, this is what I use:

http://i.imgur.com/LuzFtZJ.png

The only Vision stigma I bothered with was Pulverize Cannon (I honestly think NCsoft mistranslated this as the cannon vision is called Sequential Fire which is what you do with the pistol lmao), as the other vision stigma are only unlocked if use a subpar PvE stigma setup. Even then I only use this skill as a self heal if I get hit hard, or as an extra AoE for a group of adds.


Explanations for each used skill:


Shellshock: The most reliable cannon burst skill for Gunner. High base damage of 3K and fast animation charging time & animation. The best part is the 24s CD, meaning that you really SHOULD spam this skill off CD.

Juggernaut Cannon: This skill is a MUST unless you have 4.3K MB, which is only possible if you have a well-enchant DD or Pure IS set, and even then I'd still use this skill as lowering MS benefits everyone in the group / alliance. You really need the 400 MS decrease boost (which is the equivalent to temporarily adding 400MB to your MB) as Gunner has lower base MB than cloth. The damage is decent (1.2K), and on a 30 sec cooldown it's pretty spammable.

Hemorrhage Shot: Originally in 4.0 this skill is meh, but now it has a base 1.7K burst AND only a 30s CD. It even bleeds rubbish mobs for more damage (but it doesn't debuff on bosses). Spam this skill off CD.

Blazing Bombardment: Charging up for 2.3K is neat considering the only charge skills that outDPS this is Shellshock or Missile Guide. In addition to the nice damage, It also debuffs fire resistance, meaning that your Pistol Gunshot chain will do more damage if you use it immediately after.

Steady Fire: This skill may look mediocre at first as it only does 462 damage for x5. However, that means it does a bass damage of about 2.3K total. It also gains the bonus of extra Balaur damage per hit for more damage, which is practically every endgame instance that isn't Danuar Reliquary. Out of all of the pistol repeat skills, this has the fastest firing animation as well! A 30s CD means that this skill is spammable too!

Frozen Blitz: Out of the remaining stigmas, Frozen Blitz is the best one to use for long term DPS over Power Grab, Missile Guide, and Shock & Awe. 985 is alright, but it only has a 16s CD compared to the other green Stigma's MUCH longer CD, meaning it's the most spammable stigma skill!


Other Stigmas that might have use in PvE instances, but at a cost of lowering your DPS:

Power Grab: Does half the damage of Frozen blitz with a longer CD. This skill is really only used either because you are still learning a good rotation to mana-manage (Yeah this sounds like a joke on a Gunner but I'm actually serious that you need to mana-manage for a good rotation), or that HP heal helps keep you alive for Danuar Reliquary or Drakenspire Depths.

Shock & Awe: 2.2K DPS is alright, but Blazing bombardment does more damage, lowers fire resistance, AND only has a 24s CD instead of a 40s CD. Frozen Blitz is more spammable since you can fire 2 in only 32 seconds. Shock & Awe is only really used for patrol/defense in Illuminary Obelisk (and yes Gunners CAN do it for people who don't know, especially it's a lot easier since the defense rubbish mobs have been nerfed). Shock & Awe is really awesome for PvP though, as it can be used as another insta-stun.

Fiery Blast: 1.6K and 30s CD is terrible compared to Blazing Bombardment. Only use this for Illuminary Obelisk patrol/defense.

Sighting: The only instance I'd use this is in Infernal Danuar Reliquary. Some reason Gunner's MA boost like doesn't work against the summoned adds, so you get a ton of resists. It's really important to clear the adds in Infernal Danuar Reliquary asap because there is a TON of them, so sighting ensures you can clean up a couple in 20s.


Avoid -- From a Pure DPS standpoint

Autoload: This may come as a HUGE surprise even to more pistol-based Gunners. For the default pistol chain skills, Gunshot chain does around 4K, and the Mana chain does around 3K (Never use Trunkshot for damage only!). The biggest problem is that Autoload has a 1min CD, when you can just use Shellshock or Hemorrhage shot twice instead due to their short CD's. Autoload is a huge victim from 6 Stigma limit. I'd probably use it if I had one more stigma slot.

Pressurized Chamber: Decent skill damage-wise, but once again it doesn't top the other chosen Blue stigmas. You will most likely proc this skill around 8 times, meaning you do 1.4K total. Therefore, it actually does more than Juggernaut Cannon. However, you need 4.3K MB to benefit from this small boost, which as already stated is incredibly difficult to get. Pressurize Chamber is another victim from the 6 stigma limit.

Missile Guide: 4.1K Damage with a 2min CD is terrible DPS-wise compared to your other stigma options, when all you can do is use Frozen Blitz 4x in 2 minutes to do the same amount of damage. The main niche use of Missile Guide is a massive charge up burst if you got an enemy stunned in PvP. It also has the longest charging animation of your charge skills. If Missile Guide did 6K like Sorc's Storm Strike instead, then I'd use it. Otherwise it's damage compared to it's animation length and CD is paltry.

Paralysis Cannon: This skill is more of to set up a massive cannon burst chain, ending with Sitting Qooqoo, to burst someone in PvP in a way they can't retaliate. If you somehow want more stuns in PvE, just use Autoload and use the Trunkshot Chain instead.

Stopping Power: In 4.0 this skill is nice, but you just don't have room for it anymore. 10% increase of damage for 5 -preferably- cannon skills isn't worth it when you'll do probably 1K extra base damage at most after using Shellshock + insta-burst skills. This skill also has a 1 min CD. Better off using Hemorrhage shot instead.

Dazzling Fire: 600 damage with a 40s CD is terrible when compared to Shellshock. This skill is pretty much used only for the stun, and even then you already have the option of Trunkshot first before having to use a stigmma slot for a stun.

Nature's Favour: wut is dis skill


Proof of DPS rotation(and the percentage of how much damage each skill does out of the total damage):

This is taken from a 2min DPS test against a Dummy. While it won't accurately measure the DPS you will do in an instance due to MB cap reasons of the dummies, it still is a good indicator of rotation in my opinion.

http://i.imgur.com/QulT0NU.png
Larger Link: http://imgur.com/QulT0NU

If you actually know a DPS rotation or stigma setup that actually is better than what I can get and have a screenshot, I'd love to see it and be informed of it.


Random Rant:

I hate the bad stigma that Gunner is the most easiest DPS class as people mostly think it's " 1 1 1 1 1 reload 1 1 1 1 1" and that's all. It's gotten me rejected to waaaay too many Drakenspire alliances (Only cleared it three times ever), and I always get looked down upon. I honestly think it's the most rotation reliant class even beyond Spiritmaster, in which a proper rotation really makes a huge difference. If you mistime your skills you end up having to use skills like Wing Clip and Green Grenade, which is really just a waste of time when used due to the pitiful damage they do. Though I honestly think the class needs a buff in some kind raw DPS-wise either in buffed based damage, reduced CD's on autoload and Missile Guide, or just more stigmas converted to default skills, as Gunner is probably the 2nd worst PvE DPS class. When equally geared, practically every other class does around 20% more damage then Gunner, and Sorc's/Sin's hit a whopping 40%. It is also arguably the worst PvP class (debatable, I'm not getting into that though). I mean, there's a pretty good damn reason most people quit playing Gunner.

TLDR; My PvE stigma setup is based on the skills that are most efficient in terms of CDs rather than raw damage alone.
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Last edited by Lumiphat - Siel; 04-04-2016 at 09:28 PM.
  #8  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:37 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 879
Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Lumiphat made some good points especially regarding missile guide's long CD, happily removing it allowed Shellshock back in. Not sure why I missed that last time I was shuffling stigma's around.

http://aion.mouseclic.com/tool/stigma/jBCDKMP65
  #9  
Old 04-05-2016, 03:11 AM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 42
Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiphat - Siel View Post
Juggernaut Cannon.

Random Rant:

I hate the bad stigma that Gunner is the most easiest DPS class as people mostly think it's " 1 1 1 1 1 reload 1 1 1 1 1" and that's all. It's gotten me rejected to waaaay too many Drakenspire alliances (Only cleared it three times ever), and I always get looked down upon. I honestly think it's the most rotation reliant class even beyond Spiritmaster, in which a proper rotation really makes a huge difference. If you mistime your skills you end up having to use skills like Wing Clip and Green Grenade, which is really just a waste of time when used due to the pitiful damage they do. Though I honestly think the class needs a buff in some kind raw DPS-wise either in buffed based damage, reduced CD's on autoload and Missile Guide, or just more stigmas converted to default skills, as Gunner is probably the 2nd worst PvE DPS class. When equally geared, practically every other class does around 20% more damage then Gunner, and Sorc's/Sin's hit a whopping 40%. It is also arguably the worst PvP class (debatable, I'm not getting into that though). I mean, there's a pretty good damn reason most people quit playing Gunner.

TLDR; My PvE stigma setup is based on the skills that are most efficient in terms of CDs rather than raw damage alone.
This is extra funny to me considering my in game stats aren't all that amazing yet I can keep up with some very well geared sorcs that reach near 4k MB (I'm sitting on about 700 to 800 less right now though I'm slowly working on that).

Anyways, that's just a sidenote. Thank you very much for your detailed and well explained answer. By now I think it's obvious I can cut Stopping Power out of my stigma selection, and you bring up an interesting point as far as Missile Guide is concerned too (which usually makes up roughly 6% of my overall DPS if I recall correctly). I suppose Shellshock can be used about as effectively in PvP for bursting as Missile Guide.


From the responses I've been getting so far it's clear that Hemorrhage Shot is a lot better than Stopping Power, but that still leaves me with the question "Does Paralysis Cannon fit into this, and if so what can it replace?" I'm aware this skill is near useless as far as PvE is concerned (unless used on one add every two mins in instances like DR), but I've also stated that I want a hybrid setup suitable for both PvP and PvE that is fully cannon focused (though I see now that Hemorrhage Shot's a skill I probably don't want to miss out on too much).
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  #10  
Old 04-05-2016, 04:53 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,256
Default Re: Juggernaut Cannon vs Stopping Power

Why do you want a hybrid setup?

That does not work. Blazing bombardment, steady shot, and shellshock are all rubbish and/or mediocre in PVP compared to PVE. The role you want to be in PVP (a heavy burster with instant stuns and quick silence buries) is very different than in PVE (where you are allowed full charge cannon skills)

Switch your stigmas for 200k kinah. Don't be mediocre in one because you're too lazy to go to a stigma master smh

@Lumi

Very good overview of PVE skill priorities and base damages.
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