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Old 07-23-2016, 04:30 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 66
Default Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

So today a thought crossed my mind while conversing with a fellow player.

How good/bad am I REALLY doing as a Chanter?

Earlier, a LFG was posted for the Theo Test Chamber, saying they needed a chanter/sw and a DPS. I haven't done this instance yet, since it's only been out a week or so, so I whispered the leader to ask if he would mind me joining. Didn't get a reply, so after a while, I went ahead and applied..several times.

This particular player has whispered me out of nowhere before to tell me I was wasting my time posting about wanting to trade "x" skin for "x" skin, and that I should just de them. While the wording wasn't the most friendly, I took it as an opportunity to find a better trading item (Yume Wings for an Adma Hauberk if any Tiamat ppl see this~).
My point being, with all the LFGs and stuff I see this player participating in (they're lvl 71 as of posting) I would say they're in the category of "know-it-all/my way or the highway vet player".

SO, with that said, I never got invited, and figured they were either afk, or didn't find me worthy, so I whispered another person I saw recruiting for the same pty, asking if the leader would invite a new TTC runner. They said they would ask, and a while went by waiting. Eventually, after seeing that their pty went from 3/6 to 4/6, I decided to to just give up and wish them luck, as well as voice that I didn't appreciate being ignored like that. No hard feelings to that other recuiter, though!

Finally, the leader whispers me, asking if I had the Chanter's vision skill. This is literally the first time I've EVER been asked that. Currently, I don't have any non-inert stigmas (I know, I know..), since I'm a bit casual and am in the process of saving up to buy them rather than rely on my terrible rng. It was such a random question, I figured the instance must require it somehow, so I told them "no" and asked if it was needed to get invited. Their answer was "nvm", and then nothing.
I whispered them again to ask that they at least tell me if it's required so I could LEARN something and work toward it quicker and be invited to future runs.
Instead of enlightening me, they went on to mention that they only invite people that they know are good, and something like "we only run IS before and did not get real heals".

I didn't realize until they said that that I HAVE partied with them before, but let me explain the IS group in which there were no "real heals"..

First of all, I was taught IS's mechanics a while back from fellow players, learned my party hopping (and bizarrely specific) role as the sole chanter, and would have to say I've never had a problem in my many many runs.
This IS pty, however, had ONE cleric. The cleric and myself were placed in group one, with no healer in group 2 at all. I don't remember what group they were in, but they were DPS, not a tank. I was never given vice status to hop around, and wasn't placed with any cloths (if there were any) for woq. I was ignored when I brought up the issues to the leader (the same player from today). All I was told to do was stay in group 1. Well, needless to say we failed that IS, because group 2 couldn't keep themselves alive, and I was yelled at for not constantly running over there to raise them, and then running back to pop wow at a completely random time and heal my own pty. Of course no real heals were given! I was never allowed to stand still..And now this player seems to think I'm a bad Chanter/player and won't invite me.

I won't lie, the comment got to me a little bit, and I had to sit there and stare at a 5/6 LFG needing ONLY a chanter for another 20 minutes.

Now, before anyone says "just don't pty with him", I won't, don't worry. After today, I'm not going to deal with this player anymore, BUT.. my ultimate point of posting this wasn't to QQ and fish for kind words.

Instead, I'm going to use this opportunity, like my previous encounter with this player, to find out where I actually stand among other Chanters. Their words really got me thinking, and I want to know if I really did qualify to get into TTC, or what I need to do to be better. There's no way I can demonstrate my actual playing skills here, so I thought I would post my current gear and such to hopefully get feedback on what I can improve so I can get into those instances!


This is coming from a semi casual player, so I'm still working towards the obvious goals (+ing everything to max, socketing, etc) But, I want blunt/honest feedback! Even if you're rude, I'm going to learn from it, so HA!

My armor is the ever-unchanging Kahrun set. Including hat and all accessories (except for one earring and necklace that are enraged Hyperion Opal)

Chest - +15 and Full HP+95
Pants - +15 and Full HP+95
Boots - +15 and Full HP+95
Gloves - +3 and Full HP+95
Shoulders - +7 and Full HP+95

Weapon - Vasharti mythic
Mace - Full HP +100 / Full Ancient HP+105
Shield - Full HP +95 / x1 Ancient HP+105

Wings
Iluma Protector's

Stigmas - all intert
word of inspiration
elemental screen
healing burst
blessing of stone
word of life
acceleration cheer (meh)

Right now, I have 19,382 HP buffed..I'm beginning to wonder if it's too much HP?..I've had more than the tank in a couple ptys.

I'm also confused on how I'm supposed to keep up with tough instances when there hasn't been a better support set than Kahrun in forever (or is there?). No one's had an issue inviting me to AoE, but I have yet to clear any bosses with a group because many people are still "undergeared"..Does this include me as well? Aside from finishing +ing everything and stuff, I don't know how to improve. Kahrun is lvl 60!


To be perfectly honest, I would consider myself a good player. I can listen and am very attentive to what's going on (unless I haven't learned mechanics or something). Unfortunately, though, people don't bother to tell you when you're good, but they'll very quickly tell you when you aren't. Therefore, I have no valid gauge.
Thanks in advance to anyone who got through this rant, I appreciate ANY help you can provide :)


side note - My PVP gear is all Emissary + Custodian gloves, and BM mace and shield. I'm not terrible! ..

Last edited by Meriell - Tiamat; 07-23-2016 at 08:00 PM.
  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:04 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 84
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Pve wise, it can hard to differentiate between an average chanter and decent chanter. Chanters have always been associated with being the copout classes where woi and rs is only used. Experienced players would notice the finer details of a good chanter whereas an average player assume any chanter is merely a woi bot. Your gear is perfectly fine for pve support as kahrun set has concentration. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the class (chanter being the enabler/buffer of the group) and the amount of subpar chanters around, it is hard to stand out. during IS runs, the average chanter was so subpar i had to duobox my own chanter to woi every 15secs and rs and cleric grp 1. Here are some common mistakes i notice:

-Use woi within range of members (20m). Some chanters stand at 25m and dont even notice the buff not reaching the group.
-Dont use rs/healing burst aimlessly if off cd. Watch boss cast for incoming damage and preheal.
-If at anytime the group hp is topped up, start being proactive and do some dps or something helpful. Should never be a moment when you are idle.
-For more intensive healing purposes
please turn off rage spell,use casting mace and cast scroll if u wish. I see so many chanters heal with rage spell whilst doing 0dps. Go figure
-Dont be afraid to use cd like woq/ss/es premptively. Ideally use 1 of the big 3 at a time so you have others in reserve later.This judgement comes with knowledge of instance and grp clerics healing abilities.
-Use healing skills efficiently. Ideally you can keep up 3 group members pretty well. Rs 1st member, healing burst 2nd member, heal light spam 3rd. Avoid wasting all 3 spells on 1 member as it results in over healing.

Those are some of the general things i can think of, it gets more specific depending on the instance you do.Ultimately having a decent cleric enables an already decent chanter to shine, but good chanters can carry the group as long as the cleric is not total deadweight. Basically be proactive, preheal,mitigate dmg at right times,dps when idle. As long as a chanter can do that, they would be decent in my opinion.
  #3  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:29 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,854
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

I agree with Voodoodoctor.

It's not just Chanter, many classes are finding it difficult to find groups due to the amount mishaps they have had or simply due to that class being the most current choice for botters.

Be aware, don't let your desperation of being good, mar your decisions.

Understand your strengths and limitations and for me, having a Chanter in a group is someone to have my back as a Cleric, not just to toss me heals if I need them but to get - keep mobs off of me.

My biggest issue is that mobs will attack me and often - no one will try to get them off of me. These distractions cost somewhere... The main healer needs other classes to watch their back, and a Chanter is more than capable of doing this and putting out the damage as needed.

I really liked playing Chanter, they are exceptional when you take the time to really get to see what they can do.

It's good for you to ask these questions.

Don't fret. On Ode I stopped doing instances maybe 2 years after Fast Track came out. I finally found folks that are willing to teach me the ropes and have the patience to do walk-throughs with me. Interestingly enough, they are in my newly growing legion. (used to be just my alts - now is filling up with other players).

Keep reaching out, somewhere you will connect with like-minds.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2016, 12:47 PM
Asmodians
  • Rank: General
  • Posts: 257
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Get in a guild that does stuff as well if you aren't already.

Also you should be able with the drops out these days to get a better set than kahrun. Do the Marchutan quest line or the Norsvold quest line for the mythic stuff.

I main a chanter these days and it is a load of fun. I don't have my stigs all done. i am waiting until we get a free bag of them all in 5.3? I think.

These games are always hard on those that play casually.

Mal
  #5  
Old 07-24-2016, 12:53 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Bryoncé
  • Posts: 4,695
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Better stuff than Kahrun? Despire being eternal and level 60, it is still one of the best support sets out there.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2016, 03:30 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 66
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Sorry for these long replies ^^; I got excited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoodoctor - Tiamat View Post
snip
Oooh, great reply, ty!

Luckily, and without sounding braggy, I don't think I'm guilty of too many of these, so it's good to hear I'm doing some things properly!

The ones that could probably use some work are #2,6 and maybe 3.

2. Unless I know the boss really well, I sometimes miss big casts, since I'm either not targeted on them, or miss the animation while healing/buffing lol. This can also effect #5, since if I miss a big cast, sometimes I use es and such AFTER the big hit to instead help prevent further damage while we heal up. The judgement calls on woq are harder, though..Usually it comes early when a lot of ppl are dead.

3. I dps whenever I'm safely able to, but I like to toggle between staff and mace/shield to do it (not changing scrolls or using rage spell unless we're sure to live). But, when things get crazy, I sometimes forget I've switched and try to emergency heal with my staff >< Maybe sticking to mace/shield the whole time is better?

6. I tend to over heal...I spread out my heals, but I like to rs at near full HP sometimes just to help incoming damage (not before using it on someone who actually needs it, though), but I wouldn't say it's really necessary xD
I'll try to cut back on that and just save it for when its really needed so I'm not caught with unexpected cds


I will say, I think I'm quite a champ at #1 >:P since I DO often feel I'm only there to pop woi..
In IS's case, I tend to step into the "middle" long enough to cast it then quickly back up to the sidelines again...Don't know if that's the best idea, but haven't been called out for it yet, hahaha. I'm really looking forward to getting word of instigation!

With Chanter being my main, I'm never really able to observe other Chanters in ptys, since there's almost never a need for more than one. So this advice is very helpful :P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ode - Kahrun View Post
snip
Good to note!

I'll admit I sometimes assume it's more the DPS's job of taking mobs off the Cleric, so that we can both continue healing. I guess it's situation specific, but i'll try to keep a more watchful eye on adds from now on xD ..like a Cleric bodyguard.

I get excited when asked to actually play second healer, since it gives me more to do than mindless woi and throwing in pitiful dps. I also love seeing how fast different ptys raise me when I'm down, cause it's like them letting you know how important you are :)
Of course, sometimes you get those players who like to shout your skills for you even when you're perfectly capable yourself!

I hope your legion does well, and thanks for such nice words :D
Trying my best to google things myself, but it gets to a point when I just need fresh opinions/facts on my class. So nice to know people took the time to read my wall of text to help me out <3


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekith - Tiamat View Post
snip
Good point. My legion right now doesn't seem to be as active as it was. I'll have to start looking for a casual, but active new one..I can't keep up with hardcore schedules @_@;

Really?? I've gotta look into that. That would be SUCH a relief if it's true.

Thanks for the advice! :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryos - Siel View Post
snip
Darn. On one hand it's nice to not have to grind for better gear, but it also limits things to do xP
At least I can gather new gear for skins, hahahaha~

Like I said, I try to hold off on making posts til a big update or new gear comes along. My faith in Kahrun slips after a while and I need to be reminded!

Thanks! :)
  #7  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:08 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: General
  • Posts: 275
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

It's great that you're questioning both yourself and the LFG people who are denying you, the former because learning your weaknesses is part of getting better, the latter because LFG (at least Siel Elyos LFG; I don't know about Tiamat) doesn't exactly have the brightest of players.

Anyway, since this thread is clearly you looking for feedback, here's my 2 cents.

"their words really got me thinking, and I want to know if I really did qualify to get into TTC, or what I need to do to be better"

Knowledge and reaction time >> gear, MUCH more so in this patch than in 4.0, the reason being that the bosses in 5.0 have certain special attacks and weird mechanics that prevent tanking-and-spanking from being a viable option.

I recommend looking up videos for these instances or just asking around. I personally can't give you advise on this instance though seeing as I've beaten only two 5.0 instances: Adma and Archives.

"acceleration cheer (meh)"

NEVER use this stigma in ANY situation. Some chanters might disagree, but I believe that it is 100% useless, whether for PvP or PvE. It has an unreasonably long cooldown, affects only one person, and barely increases speed enough for it to make any difference at all. It's a waste of animation time that you could've used to heal a teammate.

I recommend socketing healing conduit in its place for PvE.

"I'm also confused on how I'm supposed to keep up with tough instances when there hasn't been a better support set than Kahrun in forever (or is there?). No one's had an issue inviting me to AoE, but I have yet to clear any bosses with a group because many people are still "undergeared""

There is, though. The majority of chanters will tell you otherwise, but I personally believe that there's no better PvE support set for a chanter than a solid, thoroughly socketed and decently enchanted DPS set. In the past, you could get away with just turtling in an HP set, rotating between your 3 healing spells and popping buffs when needed. I could dedicate a whole essay explaining the reason why I think this style is terribly outdated, but that would be derailing this thread.

That being said, you can still get away with it in the easier, no-time-limit 5.0 instances like Adma and Theo. But good luck beating Archives of Eternity without a DPS set.

"Finally, the leader whispers me, asking if I had the Chanter's vision skill"

The vision stigma is a HUGE convenience for you and your group. Its stats are stronger than word of inspiration AND you don't have to spam it every 10 seconds. The latter is really important because it's mana-efficient and time-efficient, meaning that you save a decent amount of mana while having more time to contribute to the fight that you would've wasted spamming word of inspiration. In this game, every second counts.

On top of all that, you get to free up a stigma slot that would've been wasted on word of inspiration.
  #8  
Old 07-25-2016, 05:29 AM
Elyos
  • Rank: Governor
  • Posts: 1,854
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriell - Tiamat View Post
With Chanter being my main, I'm never really able to observe other Chanters in ptys, since there's almost never a need for more than one. So this advice is very helpful :P
I'm still struggling to learn SpiritMaster, and some folks along the way gave me great advice but now that I'm 56 and grouping, it's still hit or miss.

You get different advice as you go, but sometimes what someone says clicks with you and so it's important to keep asking, keep learning...

And I guess now I need to learn to PvP on my SM.... since she's questing in those regions now.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2016, 02:26 PM
Elyos
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  • Posts: 66
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

I realized I never replied to you fine people's comments!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinkusan - Siel View Post
snip
Thanks for all the great info! :D Will definitely try to watch more videos on unfamiliar instances.

I agree, I forget I have acceleration cheer socketed since I so rarely use it. I'll definitely be working my stigmas around for a more updated set though~ Can't WAIT to get vision skill!

So far, AoE has kicked our butts. I guess I'll also look into maybe an alternate DPS/support set for those types on instances, since I know for a fact I'm not contributing much dps in my Kahrun.


Thank you for your help!! <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ode - Kahrun View Post
I'm still struggling to learn SpiritMaster, and some folks along the way gave me great advice but now that I'm 56 and grouping, it's still hit or miss.

You get different advice as you go, but sometimes what someone says clicks with you and so it's important to keep asking, keep learning...

And I guess now I need to learn to PvP on my SM.... since she's questing in those regions now.
I've never attempted SM. I don't know that I could keep track of a pet too well ^^;

Good luck on yours, though! PVP is tough for a casual player, since I can really only wear gear that requires no specific rank @_@

I think everyone's advice here REALLY helped me out, so I feel much better about how to proceed into 5.0~
Hopefully the supportive players will continue to trickle through the community, they're important! hahaha xP







Thanks to everyone again for being so awesomely helpful :)
  #10  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:23 AM
Asmodians
  • Rank: General
  • Posts: 244
Default Re: Am I a bad Chanter? - small rant/vent

Sorry if i repeated anything from the above posts i didn't read them.

Chanters have the same problem clerics face but do to the nature of the class is seem to show more. Chanters, of course are melee, so its really up to the caster classes to stay within your buff radius. A lot of players do not know that chanter buffs have a smaller radius than cleric or SW. If your buffs are nor reaching the caster classes and they start to complain then tell them to stay closer to you. If they do not then that is on them not you.

As for healing chanters are masters at single target, again suffers the same problems as clerics as other players love to spread out but again since the cleric is caster they can hide it better than you. If I go into a group knowing the cleric is going to need help then i tell the group upfront unless your the cleric or tank i am NOT chasing you all over the map to heal you.

For pvp a lot of players will ignore you outright so healing shouldn't be to bad of an issue... of course if you are in a pvp group with a cleric and/or sm your main job is to heal the cleric and/or sm. If both are in your party cleric is #1 with support heal for SM. since those are going to be the top targets of the enemy group. Each pvp is slightly different and as a chanter you job is to adapt to the situation. Once the enemy group realizes they have a chanter that knows what they are doing you then become public enemy #1.

edited to add pvp

Last edited by Amasia - Tiamat; 09-19-2016 at 09:32 AM.
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