View Poll Results: Which would you rather use cost efficient wise?
Lunar New Weapon 3 75.00%
Archdaeva Weapon 1 25.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2017, 09:55 AM
Elyos
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Default Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Many people can agree that AC is a pretty good weapon for PvP (if you put the right armfuse with it). However quite a few suggest it should be used as an armfuse to an "even better" weapon. You can sometimes spot people who decided to go above +10 with their AC weapons, like YuhSenpai, a really good ranger with a +19 AC bow. In the end, people want their money's worth though, and that's where the math of "Cost Efficiency" comes into play. And I'll help you!

First off, let me state the one rule I'm going by when I'm explaining the equation of what weapon is better off compared to the other.

The winner of the cost efficiency battle is not objectively what is cheaper or what is stronger. It is to find a reasonable cost for reasonable power, a balance of the two, if you will. What will match the stronger item for a lower price?

Now, onto the maths. Lunar is slightly easier, so I'll do the equation with that first.
Please keep in mind the kinah prices are fixed to Siel-E's. Prices obviously vary between server to server, and I only play on Siel-E.

The average price for a level 74 Lunar New Greatsword is 950k-1.4b depending on the skill boost provided or whatever is the lowest price offered at the time.

We're going to take the average price of it and say that it costs 1.1b from the broker. Farming this weapon is most definitely tasking depending on the gear you currently have/your class. Since you're a templar/glad looking for the lunar new greatsword, your best chance at solo snagging the greatsword is to buy it.

To +10, lets say you used grays. Supplement prices will not be added to the equation as the amount required tends to vary and you can easily farm a lot of Supplements by farming BMs and trading them in with the BM trader at the northern artifact in the Upper Abyss, Reshanta. 50 BM = about 75-250 supplements a box with the chance of a composite manastone bag.

Gray manastone prices are commonly 7m-8m. We're going to put the price at 7.5m for the sake of averages.

7,500,000*10=75,000,000

After that, you're most likely going to use Omegas to make sure you have a very good chance at getting to +15.

Omegas on average cost between 400k-500k. We're gonna put the price at 450k for the sake of averages. You're going to need about 5-3, depending on whether or not the omegas wish to procc. Because of the chance it may not procc at all, we're going to put it at the price of 5 instead of 3 or less.

450,000,000*5=2,250,000,000

Now, you can't use supplements, and you'll need 5 omegas to unlock another level to allow further enchanting.

again, do 450,000,000*5=2,250,000,000.

Your Lunar New Greatsword is now +20.
Total cost is: 4,575,000,000 Kinah based on averages/estimates.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets do the math with an Archdaeva's Remodeled Greatsword.

The AC farm takes awhile, so thank goodness we can just buy the stuff!

AC for the Greatsword = 255k average, 255,000*2,834=722,670,000
Spirit Stone of Light = 250k average, 250,000*10=2.5m
Ancient Crafting Stone = 2.5m average, 2,500,000*60=25m
Total crafting cost is: 750,170,000

You start off at +5, so you should only need 5 more grays.
7.5m*5=37.5m
Now, if you want to get to +15 you'll need 5 omegas.

AGAIN! Do 450,000,000*5=2,250,000,000.

Then do the same math for the act of making it +20.

450,000,000*5=2,250,000,000

Total cost is: 5,250,170,000 Kinah based on averages/estimates.

The Lunar New Greatsword would cost more than the AC Greatsword to +20.
By how much? 5,250,170,000-4,575,000,000=675,170,000 Kinah!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets compare the stats and finally make a decision on which weapon is best to grab for cost efficiency.

Lunar New Greatsword (74): http://aiondatabase.net/us/item/100901537/
Attack: 530 - 558 (75)
Crit Strike: 10 (113)

Archdaeva Remodeled Danuar Greatsword +5 (70): http://aiondatabase.net/us/item/100901524/
Attack: 531 - 557 (66) [Conditioning Lv.2 - 8]
Crit Strike: 10 (100) [Conditioning Lv.1 - 10]

AC Matches the strength of Lunar New Greatsword at base stats but is pretty costy. The only "major" stat difference is their crit, which AC has higher crit than Lunar by 7. The attack is only off by 1.

However, yes, AC is comparable to Lunar when fully enchanted, but it is very costly. If you're looking to be cost efficient, try out Lunar. If you're P2W and don't give one, go AC.

Let me explain why Lunar New Greatsword would most likely be the best to use, and if you have them both you should use AC as the armfuse instead. Aka, contrasting.

-Overall stronger and cheaper to +20 compared to AC
-Is considered a uncommon drop. Lunar New weapons tend to drop off of mobs 1/2 as much as eternal items do.
-Would benefit most off of an armfused weapon's conditioning buffs
-Better base stats than AC mythic at +0

I personally like using AC as an armfuse to my Lunar. If you want to know what that sorta looks like when put together, here is mine!
Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/mHcY9

Side Note: Omegas charge more and more after each upgrade. I don't know the prices for this as it can vary, so sorry about that.
__________________
Hinter meinem schild, ein warmes gefuhl von heimat und schutz.
(Behind my shield, a warm feeling of home and shelter.)

Last edited by Obanieth - Siel; 01-04-2017 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Corrected my sleepy math on AC, thanks @LegendaryTzu
  #2  
Old 01-01-2017, 01:39 PM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Great post!
Even though I've seen AC +5 weapons for 500-600m in Israphel's broker.
  #3  
Old 01-01-2017, 08:19 PM
Elyos
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  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andregark - Siel View Post
Great post!
Even though I've seen AC +5 weapons for 500-600m in Israphel's broker.
I rarely check broker for AC +5 weapons even in Siel, but they tend to go for around 700m-900m last time I checked. Also remember that I am specifically mentioning Siel-E's economy. The prices for items generally change frequently, and from what I've heard they even change with NPCs. If your server's economy were to match Siel-E's, then that's a true bargain right there, chipping off a whole 100m or even 200m.
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Hinter meinem schild, ein warmes gefuhl von heimat und schutz.
(Behind my shield, a warm feeling of home and shelter.)

Last edited by Obanieth - Siel; 01-02-2017 at 02:41 AM.
  #4  
Old 01-02-2017, 05:42 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

I really like this idea, breaking down cost and gear effectiveness. I've thought about doing something similar for sins for a while now, based on the idea of AE Score per Kinah and when it becomes cost effective to start tempering.

It's a big topic, but something missing here is the value of the 1.3% PvP Attack available on the Danuar weapons.

Also the rate of +3 on omegas isn't exactly 100%. Enchanting my Arena dagger I only got 1 x3 going to 15.

Another thing to consider is that Conditioning and Augmented attack is less effective than straight supplement attack (it's a little more complicated than it first seems). Since the Lunar weapons have no condi/aug attack, it is all the more effective supplementary attack, which has a greater effect on skill damage.

Other than that I think more stuff like this will greatly benefit the largely under informed NA scene, despite the lack of attention the forum gets.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2017, 09:09 AM
Asmodians
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Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

hate to break it to you, but your math is all wrong.


AC weapon is cheaper and just as effective though.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2017, 12:57 PM
Elyos
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  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
Also the rate of +3 on omegas isn't exactly 100%. Enchanting my Arena dagger I only got 1 x3 going to 15.
I did state in the post that omegas don't procc 100% which is why I (attempted) to make clear that the possibility of all of your +10 enchants becoming a +1 each time isn't impossible, and I'm merely making estimates at the majority of outcomes that could occur. The stone that does however +2 all the time is Iridescent if I'm not mistaken. I think you misread how I explained it and considering I made this post in the most drowsiest state I believe that I am at fault for it.

I meant that many people tend to use Omegas+Supplements for the procc rate by +10, as it does a +2 a lot, in essence and to a technicality, increasing the chance you will be able to get to the amplified state if you were to procc. Lowering the amount of attempts at enchantment lowers the risk a bit, to an extent, making it quicker, safer, and faster to bring your enchant to a higher level if the weapon is not already at it's cap. I stated that since the procc rate doesn't always occur on enchants and there's a chance that all of the enchants could somehow all be +1 (gg RNG), it'd be best to just be safe and buy 5 max, however there's no going wrong with three as three times is the charm for omegas in Aion, at least in my experience. As far as I know, and from what I've been told by my betters, is that Omegas do (to an extent) raise the chance of success or at least narrow the window of risk due to lesser enchants required, along with supplements. Correct me if I'm wrong though, please.
__________________
Hinter meinem schild, ein warmes gefuhl von heimat und schutz.
(Behind my shield, a warm feeling of home and shelter.)
  #7  
Old 01-02-2017, 12:58 PM
Elyos
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  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendaryTzu - Siel View Post
hate to break it to you, but your math is all wrong.


AC weapon is cheaper and just as effective though.
If you could please explain it to me so I can edit it? I was making edits on this post at the worst time and I was extremely drowsy. After doing some research I messed up my math and, from what you're saying, I must've gotten confused and messed up further lol
__________________
Hinter meinem schild, ein warmes gefuhl von heimat und schutz.
(Behind my shield, a warm feeling of home and shelter.)
  #8  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:05 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Officer
  • Posts: 58
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soryu - Siel View Post
It's a big topic, but something missing here is the value of the 1.3% PvP Attack available on the Danuar weapons.

Another thing to consider is that Conditioning and Augmented attack is less effective than straight supplement attack (it's a little more complicated than it first seems). Since the Lunar weapons have no condi/aug attack, it is all the more effective supplementary attack, which has a greater effect on skill damage.
*brain breaks* Sorry, I'm a bit stupid and I don't completely understand what you mean. Lunar weapons don't have condi/aug and their base skill damage is higher is it not? Are you saying that, if I were to armfuse with my AC as I did, it wouldn't be the best synergy to go by? Or are you stating that, flat damage wise, while AC provides more perks, one provides better flat damage to go by? (I'm still trying to recover from a 23 hour stay-awake session because of semester finals and reading up on C++ programming for Garry's Mod and the like, so bare with me)

Also I state that I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective as AC/Lunar are mainly PvE weapons, however for example if you slapped a BM Mythic under AC it'd work A-Okay with the extra PvP stats, whereas Lunar simply has you relying on it's flat stats if you were to fuse with BM. I mention that AC can be used to combine with a few PvP weapons to gain some pretty good stats if you were to PvP, but that was merely to point out one of the perks of working on a AC weapon over the Lunar.
__________________
Hinter meinem schild, ein warmes gefuhl von heimat und schutz.
(Behind my shield, a warm feeling of home and shelter.)

Last edited by Obanieth - Siel; 01-02-2017 at 01:08 PM.
  #9  
Old 01-02-2017, 03:36 PM
Elyos
  • Rank: Soldier
  • Posts: 3
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Skill damage from plate weapons barely affect overall DPS to be worth truly considering.
Lunar New's effectiveness depends mainly on your toon's level and the weapon reduction fixed on top of them when they are purchased. If you can find a max/near max level reduction for a cheap price,gratz! You sniped a better scaling weapon with more attk/crit/accu
  #10  
Old 01-03-2017, 03:55 AM
Asmodians
  • Rank: Commander
  • Posts: 837
Default Re: Cost Efficiency in Gearing Up - The Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obanieth - Siel View Post
*brain breaks* Sorry, I'm a bit stupid and I don't completely understand what you mean. Lunar weapons don't have condi/aug and their base skill damage is higher is it not? Are you saying that, if I were to armfuse with my AC as I did, it wouldn't be the best synergy to go by? Or are you stating that, flat damage wise, while AC provides more perks, one provides better flat damage to go by?
So many people don't understand this; I don't blame anyone for not understanding. Forgive the basic imagery.

Weapon +10
100-200 (20)
Acc Parry Macc Etc
+10 Attack
Condition
+10 Attack

There are at least 3 types of Attack.

ALL affect your auto attack swing damage.

1. Base Attack. Comes only on the weapon itself, weapon enchanting and armour enchanting.

If you have a skill that says +100% Attack it will give you 100% of your base attack in bonus attack.

2. Supplement Attack. Affects skill base damage. This on your character page is grouped with Bonus attack, but fundamentally works slightly differently

3. Bonus Attack. This is additive to your swing only.

By extension of this, accepting that Base>Supplement>Bonus in order of preference, weapons that DO NOT have aug/condition requirements to make their full stats are MORE efficient as a result of Supplement Attack "double dipping" in your skill damage swings in that it increases the skill base damage, as well as being additive to the final swing the same as bonus attack.

I've got a little section exploring this in my guide as well as pictures to explain where I got my numbers and logic from.
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Assassin Guide - http://forums.na.aiononline.com/na/showthread.php?p=2012210
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Last edited by Mempo -; 01-03-2017 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Clarity
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